Tbh, I think most people would see it as an oxymoron. Positive training being a punishment - yeah right!

I hope so but some people believe what they read if they really want to - then they start repeating it in other places and it becomes 'fact'

Like its a stim, and only static, and it dosent hurt - seems no brainer to me there too - yet people believe it

hello,Layla..no i dont see the need ..i train my way, no books ,no trainers,just trial and error..take in lots of tips and knowlege from others,old school, i guess,i did have one around my neck...zap!!!it did not hurt, so to speek, i did not like it!i personally would like to hear from others who also use them ...not just adam..more info.....im just soaking it all in...good info weather we like them or not///respectfully..phil

we should have a challenge adam thread,

a positive trainer v adam

I wonder who would have the quickest result and the most positive response from there dog?

could do a youtube vid diary? same breed of dog, age gender etc... THAT would be interesting!

Speaking as a non-professional just a dog owner sort of person I see it from the other end-that of the client. I saw aversive trainers with my fear-reactive Kerry bitch and she ended up much worse until I seriously thought of having her put to sleep. Then we met a great behaviourist/trainer who is probably well known to many on here as he competed at top level with his Collie called Fly in heelwork to music (Attila). Cherry improved slowly but surely and she is now a pleasure to own. The only time we have issues with her being reactive is when another dog flies up at her as she cannot see too well and this scares her.

Sadly the other issue we have had is that she had an eye problem (entropion) for many years and not once did any of the trainers or behaviourists I went to advise to get her vet checked and the vet missed the condition when we went every year for her health check. I too never thought of this but my friends who are trainers said this would have probably had a bearing on her behaviour as she was in discomfort all the time.

Hi Phil

Most of my clients are experienced dog owners with their 2nd 3rd or 4th dog. Usually they have had some training from a previous dog trainer that hasn't worked or only worked to a point!

I usually intro the collar for recall (biggest call out behaviour) with the escape training in the first session, after that the owner will use the collar in avoidance training mode from then on. With difficult dogs (high level of prey drive/running off history) I will advise the owner to work the dog in escape training for a period of time after the initial training.

Most owners will buy their own collar after the first session, some will rent/borrow the collar off me before theirs arrives (I don't deal in collars) but usually they just wait a few days and then begin.

In the 2nd session we will work on recall from high distractions (sheep/dogs/horses) and I will show/advise them how best to use the collar around distractions, this may mean a return to escape training for some dogs.

For those dogs with behavioural issues it will usually take a little longer, for example with dog aggression I will do the 1st session on the recall/down minus my dogs then progress to having my dogs their in the 2nd session, but the clients dog on line/muzzled at first.
After that we progress to off lead and more dogs, most dog aggression cases take 3 or 4 sessions to be off lead in public with other dogs!

With easier dogs (posture adolsecents) it may only take one!

With fear issues/sep anxiety ect it just varies!

Feedback is extremely positive. I stay in touch with clients after the training and try and get updates ect. Most of my business is word of mouth so I guess I must be pleasing them!

Dog wise I seem to work with mostly adolscent plus working breeds, collies/jrts/spaniels/labs are extrememly common round here, I also work with a number of gsds and a few malamutes. Huskys have been very popular in the past year or so.
I do get a lot of Bull terriers (mix of types) in the cities too.

Many of these dogs are rescue/2nd hand. From a variety of charities and sources!

I charge by the hour so in many ways a quick fix does me out of business lol. However reputation is the main thing.

Client feedback on my methods.

Basically they say its an easy to apply and effective approach, they can have lots of freedom with the dog during training (not on line/in low distraction environments for ever ect) and the result is good, its also easy to maintain.
I think I charge about average (recession is a ****** lol) collar obviously adds to that quite a bit (£120 plus usually).
However people are paying for the result.

That said most of my clients seem to like me as a person as well as a trainer, I'm pretty laid back and keep the jargon down!

Hope this answers your question Phil, if not just ask again lol.

Adam

I think it could be good though im not sure I would watch the shock method of training, it just does not sit right with me,

but it would be good to see how one method compared to another, I guess what Im trying to prove it you can train anything without an shock collars and they may well be quicker, better with a happy dog at the end of it all...

I guess the e - folk would say there dogs are happy, but what I dont understand is why they feel they need to use them? I have often found in the past, that trainers who lacked any real talent or ability used them for a quick fix. Im not saying thats what adam is, I dont know enough about him.

I would like to see a vid diary of adam training something with out a collar though, just to prove to us that he can do it

Hey shona, not seen you for a while
Yup I suggested the same thing - fed up of him saying his training is quicker

we could have a you tube comp - would be interesting and I think I know the outcome

if it ever came to it, I would be happy to do my bit, lol my lot need a bit of training