I don't think it's because anyone 'thinks' that electric must hurt - it's because we *KNOW* it hurts! I've had one of these collars on my arm in the past and they are painful even at low levels (supposedly). I've received all manner of shocks in the past, from live electrics in a house which nearly knocked me out, to electric fences... they all hurt and cause rising panic.

Sorry - but these methods are cruel - and anyone who does use them is obviously not overly compassionate about their pet's welfare or happiness.

xx

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=122571&page=3

I don't know what videos your talking about. I also really don't need advice. I need a professional trainer to work with me directly. I've heard amazing things about him from people who have actually used him here in Plymouth. I'm more inclined to trust the results I see first hand from people who have dogs who I've known for years. I appreciate the good gestures but I truly am, for now, only interested in getting in touch with Adam.

How come people are saying this about me then?

Adam

Agreed

I only had to watch one video of inside a slaughter house to become a vegetarian.

(Luckily I don't agree with electric collars and will never use or promote them so I don't need to watch this video, phew!)

My problem is with inflicting pain on the dog. Which is what electric shock collars are designed to do

I knew this thread would roll like this.....

Maybe 40 yrs ago they were designed to blast a dog off a chase.

Personnally I doubt even the first super strong models caused pain in this scenario. You don't want to put your hunting dog off hunting afterall!

Now they are designed totally differently.

Adam

Do you really think anyone here thinks that was a genuine account/person?

It's not a matter of "thinking." It's a matter of knowing. Electric shocks hurt. If they didn't hurt, they wouldn't be aversive. And if they weren't aversive they wouldn't work in your "training."

Saying it doesn't hurt makes your whole training concept break down. If the dog won't actively work to avoid the shock because it doesn't hurt then the training goes nowhere. Since the dogs DO learn to fear the shock and DO actively work to avoid it, it becomes pretty clear that it hurts.

Let me give two examples:

1. Every single time I go to get invoices out of a metal basket at work during the winter I get shocked. It HURTS. I now avoid the box when I can or touch my clothed elbow to something metal to absorb the shock before touching the metal box with my bare hands. Why did I learn to approach it differently? The pain from shock.

2. Because it's winter I pick up static electricity pretty easily. I forget that and sometimes reach out to pet my dog. I often scratch beneath her ears or run my hands down the sides of her face and over her ears. The other day I went to pet her and I shocked her on the side of the face. For several hours afterward she would flinch away from my hands. I had to pair it with treats and make sure I was grounded before petting her. If the shock didn't hurt (and I have many times heard people, including you I believe, say that it's "just like" static electricity which "doesn't really hurt you"), then why the avoidance of my hands?

Shocks DO hurt and if you're going to use such things to "train" then you need to face up to what they are and what you're doing. Pretending there is no pain involved in being shocked is not doing anyone any service. Lying about it is not doing anyone any service and simply makes you look BAD. Be honest about what you do Adam because right now you're simply typing out a whole slew of lies. Why would anyone want to go to a dishonest trainer no matter WHAT they use?

Because they dont have a clue.

These people CANT train a dog, obvisley, & therefore their opinions actually mean sod all

We're going round in circles.

1. Electric shocks = pain
   
2. If you didn't need pain, you'd use motorised collars (that simply 'vibrate') instead.