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Helena54
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09-01-2010, 02:25 PM
Methinks I'd better read the whole of this thread...... Hmmmmmmm
Emma
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09-01-2010, 02:28 PM
I was just wondering, if his ears are infected he may have a vertigo like issue (I am guessing dogs can get it) it is a middle ear imbalance, I was just thinking as he was laying and not wanting to get up, if he was having vertigo it makes everything unbalanced and the world spins in horrid ways (had it myself a few times it is nasty). Just a thought may be nothing to it
Tassle
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09-01-2010, 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Thats the thing, I agree with what you said, but Jake gave Lozzi no warning. Im sure if he growled at her or lifted his lips, she wouldnt of tried to move him. She has done what she did many times before, it wasnt strange behaviour for him, it wasnt new or different. He chose, without warning to bite her face and hands, then again a short time later, from what I gather would of been a worse attack than the first.

I just dont like some of the complacency in some of the posts that all, anyone who's dog may be biting for some reason could see this as "normal" and "allowed" which IMO could lead to very serious consequences for some people. Im not trying to be awkward, just pointing out how it comes across.
She had told him...he ignored her.....she tapped him and told him again....he still ignored her - I find it impossible to believe that through this there was no change in his posture or face. She then reached down and picked him up - at which point he bit her hand and face (which was obviously fairly close to his).

Again - I do not see this as acceptable and I hope people reading this will gather that it is not a) how a dg should behave and b) how a dog should be treated.

I imagine many of the people responding to this have seen or heard about this situation hundreds of times. I get a lot of people who have done exactly the same thing with the same results becasue they fail to realise that in a situation where it is pushed or cornered a dog will often resort to using its teeth.
Helena54
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09-01-2010, 02:31 PM
Good thinking Emma (I suffer with it myself, I know how horrendous that can be!) But, he would be walking strangely, falling over kind of thing??

Ear infections in dogs can be pretty horrendous, but then he'd be sulking about in pain wouldn't he?

I don't think he wanted to go for that walk perhaps??? He knew that's what you were doing with him??? Possible??
Emma
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09-01-2010, 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by Helena54 View Post
Good thinking Emma (I suffer with it myself, I know how horrendous that can be!) But, he would be walking strangely, falling over kind of thing??

Ear infections in dogs can be pretty horrendous, but then he'd be sulking about in pain wouldn't he?

I don't think he wanted to go for that walk perhaps??? He knew that's what you were doing with him??? Possible??
True you would think he would stagger with it I know I do (I hang on to walls or crawl). Just trying to think of problems with his ears that may effect his behaviour. I know when Scratch was poorly he was snappier but he would try to rest up and didnt want anything to do with what was going on until he decided too and if I pushed him he would be grumpy (he is only 4-5kg though)
Borderdawn
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09-01-2010, 02:41 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle View Post
She had told him...he ignored her.....she tapped him and told him again....he still ignored her - I find it impossible to believe that through this there was no change in his posture or face. She then reached down and picked him up - at which point he bit her hand and face (which was obviously fairly close to his).

Again - I do not see this as acceptable and I hope people reading this will gather that it is not a) how a dg should behave and b) how a dog should be treated.

I imagine many of the people responding to this have seen or heard about this situation hundreds of times. I get a lot of people who have done exactly the same thing with the same results becasue they fail to realise that in a situation where it is pushed or cornered a dog will often resort to using its teeth.
I think you misread her opening post Tassle, she actually said:

I went back through to my parents bedroom, and he was back on the bed! I told him to get down, but he refused. So I went over and tapped his bum (just a very light tap) and told him again to get down, he did. But he lay on the floor and wouldn’t budge. so I tried to pick him up (which he is used to), and he just went crazy.
He did move when she tapped him, he got down, so IMO there was no reason for the dog to launch an attack on her. Perhaps a more experienced owner could of seen something else in his behaviour, but Lozzie did nothing that Jake was not used to, so I cant see how she was at fault from her description. OK, you or me may not of picked the dog up, but again, he WAS used to her doing this, so IMO the attack was unprovoked, a rumble or growl would of been the warning, not an attack.

I think perhaps she needs to go back to square one, sort out his eye/ear problems and take it a day at a time.
aliwin
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09-01-2010, 02:52 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
I have to disagree, it is NOT ok for a dog to attack anyone, let alone its owner. Telling people he is giving a warning could be very dangerous IMO, almost as though this behaviour is ok and acceptable. I read Jake has NEVER done this before, he isnt food possessive either. Im not saying that there wasnt a reason in HIS mind for what he did, but none the less a dog cannot be allowed to attack its owner, then try again shortly after, and people advise the owner he is a dog and was reacting and thats ok, it isnt.
I disagree slightly on this point, whilst I agree it is never ok for a dog to attack I think with some dogs a warning is sometimes acceptable. Our dog is in constant pain with elbow displaysia and in this weather it must be horrible for her. She will give a warning face when she is not happy and everyone in the house can read this. IMO it is her only way of saying ouch please stop this is hurting! I know this is slightly different as she was asking him to do something but what can they do if warnings are not acceptable?

Lauren, no I don't think it was ok for Jake to bite and agree the vets is the first port of call but I do think you need to go to a training class with him as he can learn to work with distractions which may help with some of the outside issues you have been experiencing. He is a mix of clever breeds (I know I have that mix too). Do you use kongs and things in the house to keep him occupied mentally?

Hope you are less shocked and sore today. Good luck hun.
Borderdawn
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09-01-2010, 02:53 PM
Originally Posted by aliwin View Post
I disagree slightly on this point, whilst I agree it is never ok for a dog to attack I think with some dogs a warning is sometimes acceptable. Our dog is in constant pain with elbow displaysia and in this weather it must be horrible for her. She will give a warning face when she is not happy and everyone in the house can read this. IMO it is her only way of saying ouch please stop this is hurting! I know this is slightly different as she was asking him to do something but what can they do if warnings are not acceptable?

Lauren, no I don't think it was ok for Jake to bite and agree the vets is the first port of call but I do think you need to go to a training class with him as he can learn to work with distractions which may help with some of the outside issues you have been experiencing. He is a mix of clever breeds (I know I have that mix too). Do you use kongs and things in the house to keep him occupied mentally?

Hope you are less shocked and sore today. Good luck hun.
Of course a dog can give warning, what warning do you think jake gave? A bite to the face and hands, then again, was that an acceptable warning? I just think that in this instance there was no warning, or that "we" can know of not being there, thats why IMO the attack was unprovoked.
littlewolf
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09-01-2010, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
I just dont like some of the complacency in some of the posts that all, anyone who's dog may be biting for some reason could see this as "normal" and "allowed" which IMO could lead to very serious consequences for some people. Im not trying to be awkward, just pointing out how it comes across.
I feel this too. I was horrified when I read the title of lozzies thread.

I too am interersted in the instance where he growled at her niece and how they have got him to stop growling? Surely a warning growl is something you don't want the dog to get rid of?
Tassle
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09-01-2010, 03:07 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
I think you misread her opening post Tassle
.
You are right - I did miss that bit. thanks.
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