I know I sometimes do not use the best of words to get my point accross and these sought of comments only just makes me realize why I rarely enter any of these debates, I thought it was all about giving views and having
just a bit of fun not picking up on every little word thats written and then answering back with sarcy comments, sorry if I offended anyone bye bye

I understand your point and we have our views, But surely it is possible that there is the option that some people also watch the dogs and dont see fear, stress etc and see the results. As in maybe they arent stressed or scared. My point is it isnt just people ignoring/being unaware/aware of fear/stress or just seeing the results it is possible they arent scared

I dont know if he did or didnt put his dogs in rescue, Ive never come across it as fact and this is one of the statement types I pointed towards in my first post in this thread, it really has nothing to do with CM as a behaviourist. Unless it can be backed by fact.

Its not CM's fault that dog "trainers"? who fight there dogs use his methods to rehab anything. surely.

I do not believe he bases anything on wolf behaviour captive or otherwise nor has he studied it as far as im aware, he bases his methods on packs of wild/stray dogs as far as I know.

Not sure how you can say they are or not
anything in bold, lol. Surely its your opinion not fact?

Ive never actually seen him use the illusion collar, pinch/prong ive already said I dis agree with, once I have seen the shock collar used and imo was justified it was the dog got maimed/killed or stopped. Many other trainers/methods had been tried iirc.

I understand the dogs are submitted for selection, what I said was as far as I know CM PERSONALLY does not know which dog or breed or problem he is going to until he arrives, hope thats clearer.


Tbh I have no factual argument other than I either havent seen this episode or I have and you are exaggerating, sorry.
Anyone copying the methods have and are advised not to and to seek professional guidance. I agree peeps will copy but again surely CM cannot be held accountable for the public ability to ignore/be irresponsible.

I hope none of that comes across as aggressive or argumentative, I dont want to be the defender of CM as im not, I dont agree 100% with his methods but we do have differing views that Id like to be able to discuss/debate. So many threads like this end up going the wrong way id like this one not to

Oh he does I heard him explaining his"theories"& how he developed them 20 years ago when he first got into the USA as an illegal. He looked for a niche in the market & went for dog "behaviour" The fact thet he talks about packs & dominance shows that he is using the wolf research. Even the opening of the show with him walking leading his"pack"is shot in the country not the streets or in a city park

He uses the Illusion Collar a lot & also sells them on his site

The one thing I thought was possibly the worst I have seen was the Chinese Crested type dog that wouldn't walk, he waited until he had tried everything in his repertoire & then the dog went to a vet after a month with him. The dog was blind & had neurological problems & died shortly afterwards. The poor thing should have gone to the vets asap either whilst it was in the rescue or went he took it home with him. I was totally disgusted that before he tried any of his methods he didn't have the poor thing vet checked first, instead he dumped it on the floor with his"pack"& tried to force the dog to walk & behave like a dog. The fact that the dog was blind would explain why it couldn't

Sorry where did that come from ? He & his production team select the dogs from the submissions to his website.

I have friends in the states, who thought he was the bees knees & submitted their dog(who was nipping & biting at 15 weeks of age)they weren't selected for the TV program, but had him offer for them to bring their puppy to his center for training, which they did(they had to pay obviously)after being shown how to stop this "most primitive"of behaviour by Alpha Rolling their puppy & doing the aggressive body stance he uses, finger pokes etc they went home to continue. Their lovely young-wait for it-Cavalier !! became very subdued & most unCavalier like. They went to a T Touch Practitioner at my suggestion, who brought the puppy back to being a normal confident out going Cavalier, the practitioner was horrified that they had been Alpha Rolling etc to stop a quite normal phrase of puppy nipping & biting, that can be easily stopped.

It took several months before she was sorted out, when they told the TT practitioner that they had been to CM she sighed & told them that she has seen & continues to see a lot of dogs trained the CM way, when she queried his methods for very young puppies with him directly she was told that it was a wolf like behaviour that had to be stopped before the dog started to totally dominant the owners !!!

I cant comment on your friends experience be that as it may, The Chinese crested I also was very disappointed that the problems were not picked up initially by a vet, I was under the impression that the dog had come from a shelter and was seen by their vet?

Im not sure you know for a fact he knows which dogs he is going to see, Im going on the info stated on the show. I am not saying that he has nothing to do with selections of dogs for the show.

I said I hadnt seen him use the illusion collar, not that he doesnt use it. I know he sells them as he is the owner of the patent/design.

The fact he talks about packs and dominance doesnt show that he is basing anything on wolf theory, stray/wild dogs also run in packs, dont they?
Nor does it by showing him running/walking with the dogs in a country area?
The fact he was an "illegal" as you put surely isnt a point relevant to him as a behaviourist?

I put at the end of my last post
"I hope none of that comes across as aggressive or argumentative, I dont want to be the defender of CM as im not, I dont agree 100% with his methods but we do have differing views that Id like to be able to discuss/debate. So many threads like this end up going the wrong way id like this one not to"

I want to be able to discuss/debate this without it getting off point or personal, we are gonna have differing opinions but im sure we can all play nice.

Surely he is not 'alpha rolling' has that strange theory not died a death yet?!?!?!?!

I know you didn't ask me, but I like Stanley Coren (is that right - it's on my bookshelve but too lazy to get up!) 'How to Speak Dog'

you carry right on saying what you think bobbles. Your opinion is just as valid as the next person.

It's only the internet after all. Not real life.

Still like him, I like that dogs are treated as dogs and not faffed with. I have seen dogs look apprehensive, but Id expect that if a strange person was telling a dog what to do.

I agree,

its just that ..a debate and your views are just as important as anyones .....its not sarcy at all i haven't seen any episodes thats makles me think rhw dogs are afraid if i did i might have different views ...........I am not one for debating and dont often get involved but its been good to see how many people just love what he does and as many hate it .its interseting not nit picking :smt002

good debate