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Malady
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28-10-2007, 01:55 PM
Originally Posted by pod View Post
..........but it doesn't follow that every crossbred litter is irresponsibly bred.


Are you saying that Crossbreeding is Responsible if they are homechecked and health checked ???
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pod
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28-10-2007, 01:58 PM
Originally Posted by Malady View Post


Are you saying that Crossbreeding is Responsible if they are homechecked and health checked ???

No of course not.... there's far more to it than that. But I don't agree that cross breeding per se is irresponsible, if that's what you're implying.
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Malady
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28-10-2007, 02:03 PM
Originally Posted by pod View Post
No of course not.... there's far more to it than that. But I don't agree that cross breeding per se is irresponsible, if that's what you're implying.
Surely ANY breeding 'has' to have a purpose, whether it be to better the breed, further the breed, put back into the gene pool of a breed etc,........

That is what makes responsible breeders........Responsible !!

What are the responsible reasons for Crossbreeding ??
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28-10-2007, 02:15 PM
Originally Posted by Malady View Post
Surely ANY breeding 'has' to have a purpose, whether it be to better the breed, further the breed, put back into the gene pool of a breed etc,........

That is what makes responsible breeders........Responsible !!

What are the responsible reasons for Crossbreeding ??

Pedigree breeding is a relatively new concept in relation to the domestication timeframe and it is becoming know that this narrowing of the gene pool is responsible for many of the genetic diseases that are prevelent in dogs.

Not saying all pedigree breeds should be abandoned but the introduction of new blood ie cross breeding, is way of bringing back health and vigour.

Also the advantages of hybrid vigour is realised in other fields of canine activity eg Lurchers and Sprockers.

And there are many people who just prefer a mongel or cross bred to pedigree. It may be less predicable but you have the benefit of better potential health and longevity.
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Malady
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28-10-2007, 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by pod View Post
Not saying all pedigree breeds should be abandoned but the introduction of new blood ie cross breeding, is way of bringing back health and vigour.
What evidence is there to suggest that crossbreeding is healthier ????

Originally Posted by pod View Post
Also the advantages of hybrid vigour is realised in other fields of canine activity eg Lurchers and Sprockers. It may be less predicable but you have the benefit of better potential health and longevity.
Please explain how it is healthier to possibly introduce a disease or hereditary issue into a dog, that wasn't there previously ???

i.e,
Breed 2 pedigrees with same known disease and possibly get that disease in the pups.

Crossbreed 2 different breeds that each have their own diseases, that could possibly pass on both to puppies.

How can that unpredictability be at all healthier ??

Again where is the evidence to suggest that Hybrid Vigour even exists ??

Originally Posted by pod View Post
And there are many people who just prefer a mongel or cross bred to pedigree.
There are millions in rescues worldwide, that doesn't make for a responsible reason for breeding more
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28-10-2007, 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by Malady View Post
What evidence is there to suggest that crossbreeding is healthier ????

There is plenty of evidence. Really outside the topic of this thread but it has been discussed previously on Dogsey.


Please explain how it is healthier to possibly introduce a disease or hereditary issue into a dog, that wasn't there previously ???

That's a strange question and not what I've said at all, but I can see what you're saying (assuming you mean 'breed' not 'dog') and very briefly....it's about genetic diversity. Most diseases are inherited as recessives. Widening the gene pool reduces the possibilty of these doubling up.

.e,
Breed 2 pedigrees with same known disease and possibly get that disease in the pups.

Crossbreed 2 different breeds that each have their own diseases, that could possibly pass on both to puppies

How can that unpredictability be at all healthier ??.

Lower COI (as in crossbreeding) has a reducing effect on appearance of genetic diseases. Also higher heterozygosity on the MHC (major histocompatibilty complex) genes is thought to stengthen the immune system.

Again where is the evidence to suggest that Hybrid Vigour even exists ??

Hybrid vigour, or as it's better known, heterosis, is a well known scientific phenomenon. Look it up.

There are millions in rescues worldwide, that doesn't make for a responsible reason for breeding more

Ok back on topic. Irresponsible breeding is the main cause of the horendous rescue problem as I see it. Yes, as I said earlier, crossbreeds are more likely to have been bred irresponsibly than pedigrees. That doesn't mean all crossbreds are irresponsibly bred any more than it means all pedigrees are responsibly bred.
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28-10-2007, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by bajaluna View Post
what if all the responsible breeders microchipped the puppies so if they went to a shelter or rescue they would be notified and have an idea of how many end up that way.

Of course they should.. I thought most did.. I know Cruiser was chipped before I picked him up..along with his brothers and sisters..
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Malady
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28-10-2007, 03:12 PM
I'm aware of Heterosis (Hybrid Vigour), or should I say the 'Theory' of it, I don't need to look it up, and have discussed it many times with many people.

I just don't personally think that the majority of people who crossbreed, have ever even heard of it, let alone taken it into consideration

Therefore I don't think you can take Heterosis into consideration when talking about breeders crossbreeding irresponsibly.
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28-10-2007, 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by Malady View Post
I'm aware of Heterosis (Hybrid Vigour), or should I say the 'Theory' of it, I don't need to look it up, and have discussed it many times with many people.

I just don't personally think that the majority of people who crossbreed, have ever even heard of it, let alone taken it into consideration

Oh I agree entirely. But there's no doubt that it exists. It's what many farming breeding practices are based on, where health is far more important to the livlihood of the farmer, than dog health is to the breeder.


Therefore I don't think you can take Heterosis into consideration when talking about breeders crossbreeding irresponsibly.

I wasn't and I agree.... most cross breeders are irresponsible and totally oblivious to the benefits of heterosis. But back to your statement This doesn't make cross breeding per se irresponsible, does it.
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Malady
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29-10-2007, 12:13 AM
...which makes it far from responsible either
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