Now I am a bit suspicious that someone becomes a member and then does not wait to say hi or hello but goes ahead and writes an article in favour of a product that has had a bad press and is in most peoples minds totally unnecessary. One wonders is this a sales pitch or a wind up.

Perhaps I am just an old cynic but this smells a bit off to me.

Well what can I say, i will try and be diplamatic. I do not like E.collars, (and I have tried on on my wrist, and it hurts, I except there may in a few specail reasons for there use , if a dog chases sheep exctra........

I am afraid by using the collar , you have not solved any of his problems, you have just masked them by using the collar, his issues will still be there, jumping ,biting ,chasing, it is just now he is more frightened of the collar, he know if he does "that he will get this, and that is just making yourself a timebomb,because his problems are still there. You say he is better with friends now, does he wear the collar when they come?? or is he without it? I think the advice of putting him in another room, when you have visitors is good advice, he is better away from people he does not know , if he is unsettld with them (you can work on that slowly) as for him chasing joggers lots of dogs will do that(mine included) the anwser there is , put them on a lead ( if he has no recall he should not be off lead at all) .... zapping him with a e.collar is no way to train him to recall.

I admire your post ( if you are genuine), for wanting to help this boy, but i thenk you have taken the wrong and dangerous route in achieving it, because in the not to distant future, when he realizes he has`nt got it on any more, he will revert back.

Quite......... guess we're all going to be bombarded now - think I'll put my "ignore the pleb" hat on....

Jackbox
I am afraid by using the collar , you have not solved any of his problems, you have just masked them by using the collar, his issues will still be there, jumping ,biting ,chasing,


Clob
1.
The above sentence of your post is good because it is a totally committed statement that you understand both the training methods and the dog, Wesley. As you have committed yourself to understanding both you will have no difficulty in telling us all of step 2 which was used.

Step one, finding the level, is on my web site, Ch7 history of e—collars. Go to freewebs main site and type in deniscarthy after the dot com and forward slash in the freewebs main site protocol.

– So now please show us your knowledge and detail the second step – what method was used and what part did the e-collar play in that method?

2.
What did you think of the positive methods, making the dog sick by strangulation, putting a board up in front of him all for a bargain £100. Another was dragging the dog in a lying position in the park, stones in a bottle without first finding his working levels and much more so far unmentioned, what are your observations of positive training which ended up with this dog on the brink of its grave?

Denis Carthy

Okay....here goes.

This story sounds familiar, westie...ecollar...haven't we heard it relayed before by Dennis to tell us how great ecollars are? This is either Dennis or Dennis getting someone to reopen the debate. Boring. Sorry.

Frankly I'm fed up of this and the sooner this thread is locked the better if you ask me...which I suspect it will be as Dennis has already gone into quote mode.

For the record.
I think ecollars are cruel, harsh, unnnecessary and dangerous.
They should not be used for sheep chasing dogs as the dog shouldn't be off the lead near livestock in the first place...it's the law.
They should not be used for dog or people aggression as it can and does make the problem worse.
They should not be used on fearful dogs as it makes them worse.

We live in a quick fix society and sadly that is extending to our dogs. These barbaric devices are easily available and seem to get rewards quickly initially, but cause untold damage to the dog, physically and mentally. They are cruel. They hurt the dog. End of. They should not therefore be used or available.
My opinion, as if everyone on here didn't know that already as I can't keep my mouth shut every time this is brought up.

How on earth can a peace loving vegetarian, who doesn't sound that different from me, think that SHOCKING a dog can possibly be a good thing to do????????? So it may appear to have worked...but you have left your dog with more problems than it started with and those problems will manifest themselves at some stage. You have hurt your dog. It loves and trusts you and you hurt it (sorry to be emotive but that's how I see it) with time and patience on your part and trying other methods, you would have a happy, well mannered companion...with no pain involved. You say you read up but still allowed your dog to get so upset it vomited. You are obviously intelligent and well read...all i can say is, before approaching someone who uses pain to train, you should have done a bit more reading. My opinion and sorry if I'm being harsh here, but as a new member you will not know the countless times Dennis has tried to have this debate. It's tiresome.

Chances are I won't answer again as I'm bored now and there is nothing new to say. The sooner these things are banned the better, end of debate, end of that aspect of animal cruelty.

Ailsa1
This story sounds familiar

Denis
Yes it does, we are hearing it all the time – this is the second this week where someone has paid £££’s for a behaviourist and achieved nothing but loss, they should not charge at all unless they can do the job, they should charge only on results, as I did, post below.

Quote, Brundog
Basically due to a previous rather bad experience with a behaviorist who failed to tackle Bruno's dog aggression,

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=39418

God this is getting worse than the NI/Ute threads! If somebody likes the effects it has on their dog, if it works for them, like anything else, so be it! I dont agree with half of what goes on and I dare say most of you feel the same, but live and let live. I know I would much rather use one of these collars than have a dog PTS because of so called behaviourists screwing things up, and also having a dog that was unpredictable and a liability too.

I boarded a Newfie recently with "issues" he was assessed by a "behaviourist" with all the credentials etc... he was given a 7 day residential course and sent home with a pinch collar! Now I know which I would choose.
Dawn.

Mmmmmmmm I dont recall in anywhere in my post , endorcing the "positive traing methods" that were used on this "Mythical dog". good positive reward based training will win every time, but it also takes dedication and commitmet to acheive this........ I think if you read my post , i suggested putting him in another room , out of the way of strange people, till he has better behaved, I cant see any wrong in that... better he is in another rooom , than biting someone. but sticking and e.collar on him and zapping him within an inch of his life , is going to make him not bite people!! what has he leaned,by doing that?????

I think I also see a patten arising her, picking posts to peices to re-enforce your methods, we have seen you at this game before on other forums, same you found ours.

You're twisting things again Clob...not rising to it, won't work...

Guys, I think we should ignore the troll and let him crawl off under his bridge again