Hi again Myrsky—

First off, that was unbelievably irresponsible of your neighbour. If their dog is so dangerous that they have to have them muzzled, they absolutely must take care not to drop the leash. A muzzled dog is perfectly capable of harming a puppy, another dog, or a person, and that owner is completely in the wrong here. I would be angry too— I would be livid! Have you checked your puppy all over? And are you hurt at all? Sometimes the adrenaline can mask any injury you may have. Please make sure you’re all OK.

Your dog was doing the natural, right thing to do by crying— that’s what a normal, well-adjusted puppy would do. The normal, well-adjusted reaction to this would be the other dog understanding that your dog didn’t want to fight and was surrendering, and nothing should have happened. But that’s not what happened and your puppy was terrified. That’s bad.

You’re right to be concerned that this could affect him in the future. Dogs don’t tend to forget things like this, and it is possible for him to develop an aversion to any dog even remotely resembling the dog who attacked him.

I think the best thing to do, if he’s ok, is to go out again soon. Be happy and cheerful— not fearful. If you are apprehensive and fearful, your puppy will pick up on that. Remember, and bear it constantly in your mind, that YOU have EVERY RIGHT to be on your street, in your town, in your place, where you live. No one gets to bully you and no one gets to attack your puppy. That is NOT ON. If you feel fearful going out on your own, can you go out with a friend? It’s not an acceptable solution, but you need to be able to go out and be safe in your own area.

If you are frightened of the neighbour, do report it to the police. Seriously, do. That is antisocial behaviour and it is not to be tolerated. If you or your puppy are hurt, report it. If it happened to you, it could happen to anyone else too— so the police need to know.

Do you have any friends with nice larger dogs, especially ones resembling boxers, who you could visit with your puppy? If he has some time with a friendly bigger dog, that might take the edge off. I’d bring my three around to you if I could. A puppy class could help.

I am so sorry this happened to you. It’s terrible. We’re all here for you.

Myfromga,
First I want to say that I’m not trying to change anyone’s behaviour , that would be a waste of my time. I’m sure your dog is happy and I’ve never thought you have hurt your dog physically .
I really glad that I don’t live in your neighbourhood . I couldn’t bear to see dogs treated like that. I wouldn’t be able to keep my mouth shut.
The hypersensitivity you see here isn’t necessarily a UK thing. There are many leading US trainers and behaviourist s who are leading the PR “movement” so to speak. They have been a great influence on trainers/behaviourist here and in Europe.

One of the points I’m trying to make is about emotions .

I didn’t mean I feed my dogs caviar and bathe them in champaigne , not that I like caviar or champaigne baths!
No, dogs aren’t humans but they not “just “ dogs either. They are dogs that have the same basic emotions as humans and all mammals . The strength of how they feel these emotions depends on the lots of things .
Emotions are vital for survival , we all react to them and they are often stronger than our rational thinking . Act first , think later is how we survive.
Yes , Scenarios are examples. My scenario is one example, it’s one that is applicable to me, you could give your own of how you think or know you would react emotionally in that setting.


As I said , its fight , flight , freeze or faff around. If you google the four F’s and behaviour , you will find a lot of stuff about. Check it out , you don’t have to take my word for it . I always check out stuff for myself , it’s not aways good to believe what you read on a forum no matter who says it .
The way we act on forums , we read posts and depending on what is said we could feel , angry or sad , or happy, we feel those emotions instantaneously and react to that . Sometimes, I feel angry and I’ve sent off a rude or angry post back , without thinking (fight) or I might avoid reading or ignore their posts because I don’t want to be more upset. (flight ) Also previous bad experiences or memories can make us over react.

I’m sure you think I over reacted when I said I was very upset about your comment on getting rid of a dog . I was upset because I used to work for the RSPCA and had to hold a lot of puppies, kittens , dogs and cats when the vet injected them to kill them because people dumped them for not very good reasons , I actually felt despair and hopelessness .
You reacted to my post in a way , that I felt was defensive (because of your past experiences maybe) you included You don’t know me and I thought well , why would I want to get to know you , you’re not making me want to get to know you so I didn’t really read the rest of your posts in that thread. (avoidance)

Animals are no different , if they feel threatened or fearful in a situation they may bite , runaway if they can , act appeasively or not do anything at all.
They may just feel very uncomfortable in a situation and not do anything extreme and give off appeasive or stress signals.
Someone might not actually be doing anything deliberate , like Gnasher said , a cough can scare a dog . You might not be doing very much at all and not think it’s very scary but it’s what the dog itself, finds uncomfortable or intimidating . Like you said , it depends on the different dogs owners and situations , previous experiences etc .,

I’m rambling a bit now , I hope you get my meaning .
I’ve had the same experiences as you on forums , sworn at and called an idiot . This is on the US forums and newsgroups where members did sometimes use chokes , prong s etc the “discussions” about these became really nasty .
I held my own and gave as good as i got but these people they really did know about training and behaviour so after a couple of years of fighting and insulting , I realised that instead of wasting my time I should learn as much as I can and prove them wrong.
So I learnt, read books, did dog courses, tried to gain more practical experience and you know what , I found it just so absolutely fascinating, all the things I didn’t know . There’s nothing more exciting then a new dog behaviour book .
So I was able to talk properly to people I had disagreed with and I listened and even though I disagreed , I still learnt a lot . They knew a tremendous amount and sometimes I had to agree that they were right . They respected that I knew and understood struff where as before I didnt.
It’s easy to insult people ( I’m not saying you do !) It’s also fun but in the long run it doesn’t get you anywhere.
I’m not saying you don’t know anything about the behaviour of dogs or training but there’s aways things you don’t know and thats true of anyone.
If you feel people are wrong then you can show them why , convince them . There are lots of good book on amazon and lots of studies free on google.

WHAT!!! Whatever happened to democracy? EVERYBODY ... YES EVERYBODY, EVEN GNASHER are entitled to their views. Dogsey is thank goodness a democratic site.

I have never said that I do not agree with positive reinforcement. All I say is that my way must be right for my dogs. Why? Because I know them, have slept with them, loved and lived with them 24/7. I can read my current dog, Ben, as well now as I could read his father. I know my dogs better than ANYBODY in the whole wide world, even OH!!

Great post Dibby

You do not need this, nor does your little guy. I am so sorry this has happened. Hal was severely savaged by a GSD when he was a pup of about 14 weeks. He was just lying by my side, on the leash, whilst I talked to the owners of the GSD and an attack was launched. Hal was fine, absolutely no bite inflicted at all, no harm done, Hal shrieked blue murder, I checked him over, all was well. I put this down to experience - dogs WILL fight, some dogs WILL launch an unprovoked attack, so I made sure that I learned the signs so that in future I could protect Hal from such an attack again. Myrsky it must have been terrifying for you, but stay calm, do not let this destroy your confidence or your pup's confidence, do not make too much of a fuss - immediately after the incident, it is fine to be concerned for your dog and to check him over, but don't make a huge fuss of him, just pat him and tell him he is OK. Resist shouting at the owners of the other dog, because dogs pick up on anger and it makes them fearful and uneasy. Just speak to the owner in a calm but firm voice and tell them that in future please could they be more careful, etc. etc.

I hope the little guy bounces back - bearing in mind his breeding I am sure he will! They are tough cookies Sibes!

Excellent post, bar the being livid!! We are only human though, and if our babies are attacked, it is a completely natural response.

You didn't need to ... the implication was there.

An excellent post as was your previous one about triggered aggression. I firmly believe in positive training especially with a sensitive breed like a Shar-Pei and more particularly one who spent most of her puppy-hood partially sighted. I know beyond a shadow of doubt if I'd used aversion training she'd now be a basket case !

I mentioned in another thread that I'd ordered "Dog Behaviour, Evolution and Cognition by Dr Adam Miklosi of Budapest University. It arrived a few days ago and makes fascinating reading (although a little hard on the eyes because the printing is so small). It not only provides food for thought about the way we regard and treat dogs but at the end of each chapter gives loads of references for future reading and study. Well worth the £58 it cost!

Its not about your views , of course you can say what you believe in and why but if you offer advice and telling someone to do something to their pup that the owners or mods of this forum believe is or may be detrimental then they are entitled to ask people to follow their preferred advice person.
Yes, your way may be right for your dogs but not always for other people's.

This forum isnt all about your dogs , its not all about you . Get over yourself . Bloody hell !

BTW If you want democracy , then dont moan about people having a go at you because its their democratic right. !
Put a sock in it !

Thank you, it took a while to do as I wanted to get it right . I find it hard to translate what in my brain into something understandable in print.

I'd forgotten about the book . £58 Blimey . I guess it wasnt on ebay !
Its worth it though just for the knowledge and enjoyment .
Maybe you could do a summary when you finish reading it .