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Azz
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10-01-2011, 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
Sorry missed this.

Collars have different levels because dogs have different sensitivity. Level one on many collars won't be felt by most dogs. The collars still have level one because a minority of dogs may feel it.

Remember just because it hurts you doesn't mean it could hurts the dog! I wouldn't swim in my local lake because the cold water would be very uncomfortable/painful atm, my dogs however have no issue with it!

Adam
I'm sorry but you're not fooling anyone. If you look at it logically and rationally you will deduce that electric shock collars are designed to inflict pain. If they weren't, you'd be using motorised collars instead.
Adam P
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10-01-2011, 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by Azz View Post
I'm saying electric shock treatment is mental (and physical) abuse.

I'm saying getting hurt/beat up by someone who wants you to do something, or not do something, is physical _and_ mental abuse.
I agree with the latter statement but it bears no relation to using an e collar in training. See my other posts about using it at the first level the dog feels ect.

I look at it this way. Lets say you have speakers/headphones. There will be a volume on them that is too low for you to hear, there will be a volume that you can hear comfortably.
In the same way speakers have different levels to accomadate different hearing e collars have different levels to accomadate different dogs.

Adam
rune
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10-01-2011, 05:24 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
Reward is the lay term for reinforcement, so I use it interchangably.

Rune

I've been on here just as much recently as when e collars were hot topic. I just think your only interested in what people have to say if you can argue with them!

Dogs I train get loads of rewards.

Adam
LOL----there must be something very wrong with your use of rewards if it has the result on the dogs that you proudly showed us.

rune
Azz
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10-01-2011, 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by gsd lover View Post
after watching the vid it clearly prooved the fact that it does mentaly and physicaly damage the dog as with it does humans too.
I hope it didn't disturb you too much - I keep getting visions of those poor dogs and children with tubes sticking out of their cheeks and the electric shocks

I can't see how any kind/decent person could do such a thing, to animals or humans.
Adam P
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10-01-2011, 05:27 PM
Originally Posted by Azz View Post
I'm sorry but you're not fooling anyone. If you look at it logically and rationally you will deduce that electric shock collars are designed to inflict pain. If they weren't, you'd be using motorised collars instead.
If you go high enough on a vibrate it would hurt.

I once wrecked the wheel of my car by driving over a rock.I had to drive it 200yrds to get out of traffic, because of the mess the wheel was in the car was vibrate a huge amount, it was quite painful to sit in!

To go back to my speakers analogy, if you turn the speakers up really loud and blast heavy metal through it it will hurt! But if you have them down were its at your level it will be cool! E stimulus is the same in that a zap off a horse fence will hurt (4000 time stronger than e collar btw) but off a tens machine will be quite okay.

Adam
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10-01-2011, 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by Azz View Post
I hope it didn't disturb you too much - I keep getting visions of those poor dogs and children with tubes sticking out of their cheeks and the electric shocks

I can't see how any kind/decent person could do such a thing, to animals or humans.
I agree its unpleasent but for the the pavlov experiments the dogs were hooked up in a similar way, with tubes sticking in their faces to measure salivis production ect!

Adam
Azz
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10-01-2011, 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
I look at it this way. Lets say you have speakers/headphones. There will be a volume on them that is too low for you to hear, there will be a volume that you can hear comfortably.
In the same way speakers have different levels to accomadate different hearing e collars have different levels to accomadate different dogs.

Adam
Again, you're not fooling anyone. If it was a mere case of just being able to feel a 'tingle' then you wouldn't need electric shocks! Electric motors would work.

Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
I agree with the latter statement but it bears no relation to using an e collar in training. See my other posts about using it at the first level the dog feels ect.
It has everything to do with electric shock collars - it only wouldn't, if no electric shocks/pain was administered. Which of course is not the case.
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10-01-2011, 05:31 PM
weve all seen adams "training" vids now , & theres no doubt that the dogs are scared & abused.
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10-01-2011, 05:33 PM
So your problem is not with the style of training (nr) but with the aversive stimulus?

Why? Is it just because you think electric must hurt?

Adam
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10-01-2011, 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by Azz View Post
I hope it didn't disturb you too much - I keep getting visions of those poor dogs and children with tubes sticking out of their cheeks and the electric shocks

I can't see how any kind/decent person could do such a thing, to animals or humans.
it was horrible but i think it needed to be seen realy does show the effects of these shock collars and EST on humans if only every1 seen it that way
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