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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,497
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10-01-2011, 05:05 PM
Rune
I've been on here just as much recently as when e collars were hot topic. I just think your only interested in what people have to say if you can argue with them!
Dogs I train get loads of rewards.
Adam
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Location: South Wales, UK
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,574
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10-01-2011, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer 
Stim is not the reward, stopping the stim is, its called negative reinforcement.
Electric at a low level doesn't hurt. If it did the dogs would yelp/jump ect. They don't!
Reward based methods may not inflict pain (e collars don't either!) but they still cause stress and frustration.
Adam
Originally Posted by Azz
Then why are there higher levels that hurt?
And by that reckoning, there would no need for electric shocks - the same thing could be achieved by a vibrating motor instead. The fact that that hasn't happened (motor collars replacing shock collars) says a lot.
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Stim is not the reward, stopping the stim is, its called negative reinforcement.
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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,497
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10-01-2011, 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by Azz
See my last post:
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We know it's not a reward. We know that the reward is not getting punished. That's exactly what makes it mental abuse.
Re last statement, if thats the case a huge amount of life is mental abuse!
Adam
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Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
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10-01-2011, 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
I've been on here just as much recently as when e collars were hot topic.
Adam
Say... in the past month?
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Location: South Wales, UK
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,574
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10-01-2011, 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Your saying that negative reinforcement is mental abuse?
If that is so then pretty much everything we do to make ourselves more comfortable is mental abuse because its all negative reinforcement.
Adam
I'm saying getting hurt/beat up by someone who wants you to do something, or not do something, is physical _and_ mental abuse.
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Location: Kilmaloda, Cork, Ireland
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,228
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10-01-2011, 05:19 PM
I don't quite know how to respond to all of this - there is so much utter nonsense on this thread....I'm just glad I've never had to abuse my dogs to have a mutual respect with them, and a good working relationship!
xx
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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,497
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10-01-2011, 05:19 PM
Originally Posted by Azz
Then why are there higher levels that hurt?
And by that reckoning, there would no need for electric shocks - the same thing could be achieved by a vibrating motor instead. The fact that that hasn't happened (motor collars replacing shock collars) says a lot.
Collars have different levels because dogs have different sensitivity. Level one on many collars won't be felt by most dogs. The collars still have level one because a minority of dogs may feel it.
Remember just because it hurts you doesn't mean it could hurts the dog! I wouldn't swim in my local lake because the cold water would be very uncomfortable/painful atm, my dogs however have no issue with it!
Adam
