It would depend on a number of things tbh - like whether it would be illegal for us to host such comments. But on the whole we are against censorship of opinion on dog related matters. Just like we haven't banned talk about pit bulls or any of the other banned breeds in the UK. We are of course an international site too - so have to bear that in mind as well.

Generally we believe education, not dictatorships are best all round

E collars are used at the lowest level the dog feels, they indicate they felt it by looking around or flicking their ears when they feel the stim. Is looking around,flicking the ears ect a sign of pain?

While I haven't seen the vid (computer) I believe that it simply used strong positive punishment to demonstrate/create a avoidance response to a specific stimulus. This positive punishment happened to be a static stimulus. They could equally have beaten the dog with a lead or kicked it. So by your logic leads/feet ect are bad!

The strong punishment is not my style of using e collars and I don't know anyone else who does it either!
Why?
A, e collars are not made strong enough for this! All e collars currently available are designed to work at a very low level of sensation. They simply aren't capable of producing high levels of punishment so people don't/can't use them as the russian scientist did.

B, Big punishment is (outside of a scientific setting) quite difficult to apply practically!

C, Its much more effective to use the e collar as neg reinforment (pressure and release) to train alternative behaviours.

When I started e collar researching I was amazed that the trainers used excatly the same princples as reward based trainers, just with an additional style of reinforcment.

Adam

That's the biggest load of nonsense I think I have ever read on Dogsey!

Electric shocks are a reward? Only if you're a bit gone in the head!!

What on earth are you on about?? E-collars administer ELECTRIC SHOCKS. That HURT. How is that not a punishment?

Positive reinforcement does not inflict pain on your dog!!

Then the person doing the training is doing it wrong.

And anyway, that is in no way any justification to HURT your dog!!!

Rats I can't watch it as I'm in the US. Whats the title of the program, maybe I can find it elsewhere.

Why?! whatever type of collar(if any). Don't worry staying out of this one, but that's just horrible

Then why are there higher levels that hurt?

And by that reckoning, there would no need for electric shocks - the same thing could be achieved by a vibrating motor instead. The fact that that hasn't happened (motor collars replacing shock collars) says a lot.

The Brain: A Secret History
1. Mind Control

Azz ---look what you have done----one hint of an e collar and just as you think the coast is clear up pops AP again!

It is like a bee and a honey pot (or maybe a wasp is a better analagy!).

Personally I don't care what you call any training method---what is important is that the animal doesn't get an electric shock and does get amply and appropriately rewarded for the behaviour you want.

To get into arguements on negative and/or positive is actually a red herring used to distract people from the fact the shock collars work because they shock and are painful. If they were just a little reminder to get the dogs attention they wouldn't be needed----a vibrating collar would have the same effect.

rune

Try copying the link, sometimes works for my computer (not atm though lol)

Azz

Stim is not the reward, stopping the stim is, its called negative reinforcement.

Electric at a low level doesn't hurt. If it did the dogs would yelp/jump ect. They don't!

Reward based methods may not inflict pain (e collars don't either!) but they still cause stress and frustration.

Adam

statement from person whose username is Adam Palmer

E collars get dogs to do what we want by rewarding them (neg reinforcment) when we like their behaviour

I think Adam`s finally lost the plot.
When you stop hurting your dog, says Adam, it is a reward.
Okaaay....