....I am not asking Adam to divulge any state secrets..


ETA Adam let's try this, I will ask you one more time , a simple yes or no will suffice ..

Do the videos you say you have submitted to the study on e collars include an example of your small JRT 'Jacca' or other dogs wearing /being subjected to two e collars at once..
yes/no

Do the videos you say you have submitted to the study on e collars contain the video made by your frequently quoted mentor showing a dog with an collar placed near to the area adjacent to its genitals .
yes/no

If you haven't submitted this material why not ? Don't you thing the study should get a true picture of the many ways e collars are used ?

Adam you could PM the reply to me, I intend to take this matter further anyway whatever you choose to do .

Over 200 pages and 2000 posts - think it's time to close this thread.

Don't worry, it's not going to end here - everyone who took part will know 2000 posts doesn't equal a 'hot' debate. But merely one person (who has a financial interest in them) trying to argue that electric shock collars are not actually cruel. Pretty much everyone else seems to disagree. (We can ignore the off-topic prong-related posts for now - we'll deal with them later )

A summary thread will be put up at some point asking people how they would summarise this thread - a link to the summary thread will then be inserted into the first post of this thread... so people don't have to trawl through thousands of posts to get a gist of it, or take my word for it.

Thanks to everyone who took part, this thread played a key role in our decision to:

• Place a partial ban on the talk of electric shock collars (debate is fine, but recommending them on unsuspecting owners is not! See the full details here.
  
• Consider adding prong collars to the ban - see here.
• Look at our rules governing 'commercial' accounts