No but it`s still an attempted quick fix - a punitive solution. As a trainer, should you not be taking a more intelligent view?

good post

Poo eating is extremely common in puppies. Indeed my puppies all did it. They grew out of it as most puppies do.

I don't have a problem with mine eating the poo of herbivorous animals. Where i liveit is prett yimpossible to avoid.

I used to walk with a friend who had two dogs and she was adamant her dogs should not eat horse poo. When they did, she would run, yelling "LEAVE IT LEAVE IT LEAVE IT", running like a demented demon towards her dogs. My dogs would duck and hover in the background concerned with all the shouting. Her dogs, however, realising they had been spotted would gulp down the WHOLE poo as fast as possible before she reached them and then seek out others. They learned, over time, to seek out and eat quickly as much horse poo as possible - I am guessing they - they thought she wanted it! .

Ineffective "leave it" commands are essentially like ineffective recalls, they teach the dog to do the opposite of what is required! Drawing attention to a particular item, by using ineffective leave it, is the same as training a dog to look for the particular item.

My dogs are allowed to eat horse poo, will occasionally pick up a bit, nibble a bit as they carry it along and then lose interest.

It is often cited that eating horse poo is dangeroous because of the possibility of wormers and pain killers etc in the faces. Well I cant be sure, but because we train so many dogs a week, and because we have been doing it for very many years, we have a fairly good idea of what sort of deaths, dogs experience. I have never yet seen an incidence of any dog being made very ill or die through eating horse poo ( apart from diorreah and sickness), though of course I can not say that it has never, nor will ever, happen. It may, But I don't think it is as high risk as people on forums appear to believe. Just my observations, not saying I am right or wrong.

It is important that if you really need to stop a behaviour with a leave it command, that the leave it command is previously and very effectively taught on a wide variety of things, in a wide variety of areas and in a wide variety of circumstances (and even then, the dog will commonly be aware that "leave it" only applies when the owner is present to dictate what can or can not be eaten or approached). With some dogs this simply is not possible.

I hope that is of some help. Love Dx

You do not think that the way it is delivered as an aversive has any bearing?

You would honestly class putting some Tabasco on the ground in the same way as using a powerful spray (that the dog cannot escape) into its face?

Hmm......interesting.

Not sure if you are asking me, i will answer as you might be??

As a trainer, I take the view which works and is within my exerience set. As for you view of whether that is intelligent or not, that is your view, which I respect.

I am a very "pro" dog, dog trainer. I encourage my clients to be the same. We use a variety of reward and clicker training methods and they work really really well and achieve amazing results, most of the time, with most dogs in most situations.

But sometimes that is not the case and in these circumstances, other approaches have to be saught to achieve the success which is in the best interest of the dog.

No, I wasn`t. Where did you study? I`m not sure what methods you favour. Only I know TC has been on a course, and am surprised that he`s going for this option.

Dealing with symptoms rather than behaviours is a sign of inexperience. Like CM holding a dog`s tail up in a Wag position to `make him less afraid`. With an inquisitive pup, I would be looking at redirecting that energy into positive avenues.

I studied with a number of the worlds top handlers form all aspects of dog training. I have done no "paper study" apart from helping other people pass their animal behaviour studies. I've been on perhaps 50 courses.

Your view that "dealing with symptoms is a sign of inexperince" is one with which, with respect to your view, I do not subscribe to. I believe lots of experinced people deal with symptoms too!

It is experience and considered experience at that, not just repeated, sheep like fashion experience, that is the base for a flexible approach. Everyones is different, as is everyones approach. I don't say anyone else is wrong, I just say what appears to work for the thousands of dogs with which I personally have been involved. My personal experience and my review and evaluation and the applied resultant approach, is tested weekly.

No offence to anyone throughout this, or any other thread ever intended. I respect everyone else's view. They too, add to my experice. So thank you for your comments.

Thanks for the Cesar/tail info...... Ive never heard of Ceasar doing that, and am not a fan of his at all , but interestingly, there is a lot of scientific evidence to suggest that changing ones body posture does actually change the emotive state within. Certainly in humans, Im not sure about animals.

So what you're saying is you really came here to get opinions that agreed with what you already planned to do (use the collar). Hmmm ok then.

When you say you think his diet OK and this is a habit from day one - have you tried many different foods, or has he been on the same one from day 1? A diet can be average, good or even a great premium brand yet can lack in something or the dog just may not be able to absorb it so well. It's quite normal for humans lacking in certain areas of their diets to be pretty healthy but have some weird cravings (e.g. anaemics can often crave ice, or even dirt and paint!) so I would definately want to rule out an issue with the diet. If you feed one particular brand and quite like it, there's no need to switch completely, but perhaps mixing it 50:50 or 1/3 of each with one or two other brands - the more variety in a diet, the more chance that everything required is covered. Alternatively perhaps look into supplements as suggested. I would want to rule this out for peace of mind, the last thing you'd want to do is treat it as a behavioural issue and then realise months down the line that the pup has a dietary deficiency which could be causing unseen damage to his developing body.

.. yip!!!!

the thing that inst sitting right with me is... this is a pup!!! cant possibly of tried 'conventional' training long enough before reaching for 'the tool'