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Location: cheshire, uk
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,513
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13-04-2010, 01:24 PM
Originally Posted by chaz 
Yes it was by Jemima Harrison, she talked a bit about all the types in the breed, saying that there is more like 3 types of cc, powder puff, hairless and true hairless, and she mentioned the truely hairless having bad teeth because of a gene assocaited with the hairlessness, and then she talked about some other stuff, including how she got told from a groomer that they have seen some dogs of this breed scream when people come near them,
the breed do not scream when being handled to be brushed/groomed, all the cresteds i have met are laid back and would let you do anything, so if they are screaming then there is something seriously wrong, either with the dog being hurt, or something not quite right at home
which tbh if they are being waxed by their owners i have never ever met an exhibitor or breeder which has waxed their dogs!
wouldn't surpise me, and she included a KC response, and then she had been sent a email that was from a CC breeder and emailed to other CC breeders telling them not to shave the dogs at crufts, that she was planning another documentry (which from the article it didn't seem so) and this was forwarded from a concered breeder/exhibitor,
i heard about this happening actually and think i know who the breeders may be. i dont want to say too much as i dont want to stir anything or get in trouble, but im honest about what i do with my dogs.
but she did go round crufts with a vet, and they looked at some of the CC's and they showed a picture of a dog looking very pink and sore which was presumably from shaving, but then I think that a mans razor if it was to be used in such a way is a bit different to a dog shaver, and could cause soreness, although I did some more looking on google this morning, as I'm still a bit undecided whether waxing actuall occurs,i have never seen a dog waxed. and have never come across anyone that does it and if it does, then anyone who waxes a dog needs done for animal cruetly IMO, and I found a breeders site, where what I copied and pasted earlier was on there, but a bit more detail, here it is, about the grooming of the CC's. I say more detail as it says about some other stuff to begin with too.
http://flutterbykennel.com/about.html
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Location: Blackpool, UK
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,045
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13-04-2010, 01:46 PM
TBH I can't imagine people waxing their dogs and I doubt very much that it goes on at all. I don't see any problem with trimming etc. for the show ring. It's just a part of the grooming process. You may as well say that they shouldn't be brushed before being exhibited.
As Jackbox says lots if not most breeds have some sort of trimming or prep done before showing. I don't do anything to mine other than brushing and raking, but even Newfs and Leos get a trim before a show. Yet more 'exhibitors and breeders are evil and should be stopped' propaganda.
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Location: cheshire, uk
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,513
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13-04-2010, 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by Loki's mum
I might have known it would be Jemima Harrison - that woman needs a new hobby.
TBH I can't imagine people waxing their dogs and I doubt very much that it goes on at all. I don't see any problem with trimming etc. for the show ring. It's just a part of the grooming process. You may as well say that they shouldn't be brushed before being exhibited.
As Jackbox says lots if not most breeds have some sort of trimming or prep done before showing. I don't do anything to mine other than brushing and raking, but even Newfs and Leos get a trim before a show. Yet more 'exhibitors and breeders are evil and should be stopped' propaganda.
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Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
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13-04-2010, 04:06 PM
Originally Posted by chaz
Yes it was by Jemima Harrison, she talked a bit about all the types in the breed, saying that there is more like 3 types of cc, powder puff, hairless and true hairless, and she mentioned the truely hairless having bad teeth because of a gene assocaited with the hairlessness, and then she talked about some other stuff, including how she got told from a groomer that they have seen some dogs of this breed scream when people come near them, which tbh if they are being waxed by their owners wouldn't surpise me, and she included a KC response, and then she had been sent a email that was from a CC breeder and emailed to other CC breeders telling them not to shave the dogs at crufts, that she was planning another documentry (which from the article it didn't seem so) and this was forwarded from a concered breeder/exhibitor, but she did go round crufts with a vet, and they looked at some of the CC's and they showed a picture of a dog looking very pink and sore which was presumably from shaving, but then I think that a mans razor if it was to be used in such a way is a bit different to a dog shaver, and could cause soreness, although I did some more looking on google this morning, as I'm still a bit undecided whether waxing actuall occurs, and if it does, then anyone who waxes a dog needs done for animal cruetly IMO, and I found a breeders site, where what I copied and pasted earlier was on there, but a bit more detail, here it is, about the grooming of the CC's. I say more detail as it says about some other stuff to begin with too.
http://flutterbykennel.com/about.html
Think about it Chaz, can you really imagine any dog standing still to be waxed.. its propaganda thats all,
Go round a CC ring yourself and see the dogs , stroke then, pet them, touch them, see how many scream in fear
they are happy little dogs with big personalities, not creatures that have been abused and tortured by their owners.
Originally Posted by aerolor
Oh for heavens sake - I find all this talk about waxing, shaving and cutting of whiskers rather disturbing. Why oh why can't a dog be a natural specimen of what nature intended it to be. A good dog of whatever breed should be able to look it best with simple grooming and routine care. A dog needs its whiskers; they are there for a purpose and apart from general tidying up and grooming to keep healthy I think it is abhorrent to primp and preen a dog for the show ring - I feel this is for the owner's prestige and the hope of winning and the gratification that comes with a win, rather than for the benefit of the dog. I am also totally against docking, ear cropping and all the other manipulations that we humans are guilty of. Sorry, but this is how I feel. We should be able to enjoy our dogs as they are, not as how we would like them to be, or how we think they should look
If yo research some of these breed that are preened , and trimmed, you will see the coat clip is rather more than just for effect..
Poodles and other breeds that are shaved, were done for a working purpose, for water retrieve, that clip gave a dog buoyancy in the water, the pom poms gave protection to kidneys .
Originally Posted by Loki's mum
I might have known it would be Jemima Harrison - that woman needs a new hobby.
Was rather obvious , it woudl be her, I heard from friends she was on a mission regards this breed...
Yep she needs a hobby, but beware it may be our breeds next she moves on to.
TBH I can't imagine people waxing their dogs and I doubt very much that it goes on at all. I don't see any problem with trimming etc. for the show ring. It's just a part of the grooming process. You may as well say that they shouldn't be brushed before being exhibited.
As far as I know it does not, but it just adds a tasty morsel for her to feed on
As Jackbox says lots if not most breeds have some sort of trimming or prep done before showing. I don't do anything to mine other than brushing and raking, but even Newfs and Leos get a trim before a show. Yet more 'exhibitors and breeders are evil and should be stopped' propaganda.
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Location: Co. Durham, UK
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,213
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13-04-2010, 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by Loki's mum
I might have known it would be Jemima Harrison - that woman needs a new hobby.
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Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,114
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14-04-2010, 09:31 AM
Poodles and other breeds that are shaved, were done for a working purpose, for water retrieve, that clip gave a dog buoyancy in the water, the pom poms gave protection to kidneys .
Sorry, but I am a little sceptical about this - poodles coats have been developed for sculpting and shaving and they do need regular trips to the barber to keep them comfortable. I would doubt that all the pom poms and the shaving of the rear ends has much to do with bouyancy or protecting kidneys. I did not know the kidneys were on the end of the tail
and certainly if the dog were not shaved on the back end it would not need protection for the kidneys. I know the origins of the poodle, but I would be more inclined to think that the lion cut is more ornamental than anything else. What I like to see in a poodle is a simple all over cut as necessary to control the growth and keep the dog comfortable. Sorry but to me the lion cut looks ridiculous and totally unnecessary for the dog's well-being. However each to his own ideas as long as the dog is happy and comfortable. I hope I do not now open a can of worms and have all the poodle enthusiasts getting angry with me. I think poodles are great dogs if allowed to be dogs and not ornaments.
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Location: Stirlingshire
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,203
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14-04-2010, 09:38 AM
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Location: grangemouth for the moment
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,890
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14-04-2010, 09:45 AM
Originally Posted by aerolor
If yo research some of these breed that are preened , and trimmed, you will see the coat clip is rather more than just for effect..
Poodles and other breeds that are shaved, were done for a working purpose, for water retrieve, that clip gave a dog buoyancy in the water, the pom poms gave protection to kidneys .
Sorry, but I am a little sceptical about this - poodles coats have been developed for sculpting and shaving and they do need regular trips to the barber to keep them comfortable. I would doubt that all the pom poms and the shaving of the rear ends has much to do with bouyancy or protecting kidneys. I did not know the kidneys were on the end of the tail
and certainly if the dog were not shaved on the back end it would not need protection for the kidneys. I know the origins of the poodle, but I would be more inclined to think that the lion cut is more ornamental than anything else. What I like to see in a poodle is a simple all over cut as necessary to control the growth and keep the dog comfortable. Sorry but to me the lion cut looks ridiculous and totally unnecessary for the dog's well-being. However each to his own ideas as long as the dog is happy and comfortable. I hope I do not now open a can of worms and have all the poodle enthusiasts getting angry with me. I think poodles are great dogs if allowed to be dogs and not ornaments.
if not then surely its not cruel to do it to a show dog.
the thing is, its got to be one or the other....
does it distress the dog? thats what I want to know?
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Location: West Midlands
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 21
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14-04-2010, 09:46 AM
What about these poor little things? we saw these at discover dogs and they are really cute from the front but this coat trim can't be natural.