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shelldron
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21-03-2010, 12:21 PM

Any advice please? (feeding raw/BARF diet)

Hi, I have been reading a lot about the RAW/BARF diet and was hoping I could get some advice off the people who use it. Is it as good as it sounds ? and how would I go about weaning my 17 week old off his kibble and onto the new diet.
Many thanks in advance.
Shell.
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Evie
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21-03-2010, 02:39 PM
I don't feed BARF, but I do feed my dogs raw, prey model diet.

These links may be of use to you;
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/preymodel.html
http://rawfed.com/
Also look up the Yahoo rawfeeding group, which is full of people with decades of experiance in raw feeding, many breeders etc there with experiance in raising pups on raw.

Best of luck.
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New2Dogz
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21-03-2010, 02:50 PM
I am also very interested in finding out more about raw foods. I am getting increasingly confused though and not sure who to believe now. I've been giving my JRT pup chicken wings for a couple of days now but it turns out according to these links that I shouldn't be doing this at all. So, who to believe? They both claim to have based their diet theories upon observation of wolves and other wild dogs. Short of getting out there and doing your own research on the subject, who is right?
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wilbar
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21-03-2010, 03:25 PM
I don't blame you for being confused ~ it's not easy & there is so much info out there on raw/BARF/Prey Model type diets ~ how do we know who is right? Unfortunately no-one seems to be doing any proper research or comparisons on canine nutrition other than pet food manufacturers who, of course, have a vested interest in promoting their own foods so certainly aren't going to be publishing any research that does not support their own foods!

The links you were given only say that feeding bones with an incorrect proportion of muscle meat to bone are not recommended on the prey model diet & they give examples like chicken wings, necks etc. But I think that is because there could be a danger that some people would only feed those sort of bones, so over the course of it's life (& especially in growing pups), the ratios would be wrong. If you sometimes feed chicken wings, & sometimes feed other bones with more meat on them, then this would, overall, be in line with the prey model diet.

The prey model diet also says that the BARF diet uses ground up foods/bones, which defeats the object of chewing, tearing, ripping larger whole bones which is great for oral health. That is not my experience of a BARF diet. All the literature I've read on BARF diets does promote the feeding of raw meaty bones WHOLE, not ground up.

As for including vegetables, the prey model diet says these are not species-appropriate foods for carnivores. But domestic dogs are not wholly carnivorous. Whilst a large part of their diet should consist of meat/bones/organs etc, many wild canids can & do eat fruit & vegetation. And domestic dogs have evolved because they were scavengers, grabbing whatever they could from the waste thrown out from early human settlements, so it is highly likely that they do derive some nutritional benefits from foods other than meat/bones etc.

The prey model diet also bases its ideas on the fact that the dentition & digestive tracts are identical to the wild counterparts of our domestic dogs & cats. If anyone knows of any research that proves this, I would be very interested. But I have some doubts that these systems are completely identical given the fact that the morphology & physiology has been so altered by human breeding practices. No doubt there are huge similarities given the long term evolution of the species & there is a limit on the changes that human breeding practices will have made, but possibly there could be some differences.

My personal opinion is that you would be doing no harm at all to include chicken wings as PART of your puppy's diet. They are a good introduction to a diet that includes raw meaty bones.
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loupoppins
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21-03-2010, 03:45 PM
Yes, itis VERY confusing isn't it! I feed raw - not exactly BARF, not exactly prey model either LOL
I think that one of the key things is variety.
I feed: Chicken wings, turkey necks,lamb ribs, pork ribs,lamb chops,heart, chicken liver and pig liver,minced rabbit/chicken/lamb/beef, beef chunks, cheap steak(when I find it reduced LOL), eggs,sardines ,tuna,pureed veg now and then etc....
I do try to roughly stick to an 80% muscle meat,10% offal,10% bone,over a week or so....but add other stuff and tend to vary the ammounts of very bony things like wings V meatier things like chunks or mince depending on her poo consistency LOL
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New2Dogz
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21-03-2010, 03:46 PM
Originally Posted by wilbar View Post
My personal opinion is that you would be doing no harm at all to include chicken wings as PART of your puppy's diet. They are a good introduction to a diet that includes raw meaty bones.
That's quite reassuring to hear - thank you! It makes sense to me that a dog should have some other foods whilst having predominantly raw meaty bones (I've been reading Billinghurst's book!) He only suggested feeding minced chicken wings for example as a method of introducing a dog to meaty bones who would not touch a whole bone. Millie was happy to tackle the chicken wings whole and spends between 1-2 hours dealing with one! I've also given her meaty beef bones but she seems almost scared of them and barks at them!!! (They are however quite big in proportion to her size). It's proving hard to get her to eat very much else at the moment tbh - she will take a few pieces of kibble from my hand and odd bits of scraps but that's about it. She loves the bones bit though!
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Meg
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21-03-2010, 03:48 PM
Hi Michelle here is something else you might like to consider which is a ready prepared raw food ..

Originally Posted by Wheaten mad

http://www.naturalinstinct.com/ our dogs LOVE this food. Unfortunately, with 5 medium sized dogs, it works out expensive for us. But I think it's quite reasonable if you just have one dog. We were talking to the owner of the company at Crufts, he said he started the company because he used to spend every Sunday mixing up vast quantities of raw food for his dogs. He decided to make it easy for others. The mixes also contain bone, so you don't need to worry too much about buying bones. You can just feed a chicken wing at night to keep your dogs teeth clean. We also give ours chicken carcasses. Most butches will let you buy these as they are normally wasted once they have removed the wings, breast and legs. Our pups have chicken wings to play with from 6 weeks onwards. They of course can't eat them, but it helps with teething and it's also a wonderful way to develop their muscles as they grip on to the wing with their paws. You must remember to only feed suitable bones, and not all bones are okay to give to your doggy

There is also this company http://www.darlingsrealdogfood.com/range.php
...taken from Wheaten mads post here...http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php...59#post1911359

There is also a Dogsey article here....'Natural feeding for dogs' by a vet in Bristol Nick Thompson...
http://www.dogsey.com/dog-articles.php?t=9616
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Evie
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21-03-2010, 03:51 PM
80% meat, skin etc, 10% bone and 10% organ is a good starting point. Of course you would have to judge by eye just how much bone to meat ratio most things have. Every dog is different, you learn to watch their poop to see how well they do and what ratio works best for them.

Bone makes poo harder, organ makes poo softer, poop watch makes it easier to find the balance. I don't try to get it right every meal, rather over a week of feeding. Some days have boney feeds, some days they get organ, some days they get meat with very little bone.

Poop should be firm but not white/chalky or causing discomfort to pass out. It will smell less and much less will come out than from a kibble fed dog (no fillers or junk going in, less waster product coming out )

Tom Lonsdale's books are good to read. Work Wonders is a practical guide to feeding your dog.

Yes, do alot of research into what you are feeding your dog and why. Be sure the method you choose will work well for both of you. Once you've got the basics of raw feeding it really is as simple as lifting a bit of bone in meat from the fridge and handing it to your dog to enjoy.
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wilbar
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21-03-2010, 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by loupoppins View Post
Yes, itis VERY confusing isn't it! I feed raw - not exactly BARF, not exactly prey model either LOL
I think that one of the key things is variety.
I feed: Chicken wings, turkey necks,lamb ribs, pork ribs,lamb chops,heart, chicken liver and pig liver,minced rabbit/chicken/lamb/beef, beef chunks, cheap steak(when I find it reduced LOL), eggs,sardines ,tuna,pureed veg now and then etc....
I do try to roughly stick to an 80% muscle meat,10% offal,10% bone,over a week or so....but add other stuff and tend to vary the ammounts of very bony things like wings V meatier things like chunks or mince depending on her poo consistency LOL
I do much the same. While I call it a BARF diet, it contains a big variety of foods so it is probably more appropriate to call it a (mainly) raw diet. I get most of my bones from a local butcher for free so it all depends what he has available that week. But if I get a big bag of pork bones one week, then I vary it with some lamb bones, or some oxtail. Another week I may get a lot of beef bones (which are the absolute favourite with my dogs) so then I can alternate with the pork bones.

But they also sometimes get cooked leftovers too ~ the remains of a casserole or some cooked mince from a shepherds pie. I don't think it causes too much harm to add a little cooked food now & again, especially if the majority is raw.
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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21-03-2010, 04:20 PM
I find it as good as people say it is

Im a prey moddler which does include some table scraps and I use some kibble as treats and some cooked meat too

WOW at a chicken wing lasting 2 hours mine are crunch crunch swallow! If something lasts 10 mins then it is a bonus!

But my two are fit as fleas with lovely white teeth, soft coats and dont smell all that doggy at all
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