Means testing benefits.

How rich is rich?

How much do you think you could earn before you don't get a bean from the government?

ie child benefit...fuel allowence. ect

I think £40,000

£40000! Gosh our income is less than half of that! I have no idea who the benefit system works but surely you couldn't get any kind of means tested benefit if your income was any where near 40k?

I don't earn anywhere near that and I don't get anything from the Government!

I am not sure of a figure that would take a great deal of thought...I do think £40,000 is too high though, we both work full time and earn nowhere near that, and don't get any benefits but then don't have children etc

In the case of the elderly I firmly believe that they should be allowed an amount of savings to use as they please, after all, they have worked there lives, and should be allowed to live a decent life in old age (JMO) but again I am not sure what the level should be set at but that amount, whatever it is should not be taken into account when means testing

yes you do get benefits on that if you have kids child tax credit...child benefit

we ourselves earn half that as well.


im out all day now but look forward to the debate when i arrive home.

Child benefit as yet isn't means tested! I don't know anyone in 40k so have no idea if you can get child tax credit on that amount or not!

You wouldn't get Child Tax Credits on 40k.

The point jols is making is that there are certain benefits everyone gets, regardless of their income, including millionaires.
So yes, even lord sugar gets winter fuel allowance, and he would get child benefit.
Even large corporations get state benefits thru tax breaks.
Its called universal benefits.

For some odd reason, in the uk, that is seen as socialist!

Whereas i would have thought socialism was about having more money available to give to the poor.

And equally, you get Tories like Margaret Thatcher and Tony Bliar and middle class Daily Mail readers that always go on about benefit cheats and spongers, yet go up in arms if you talk about chipping away at their benefits, those which are coined "middle class benefits", ie, child benefit, winter fuel allowances, free TV licence, etc.

So you get a lot of hypocrisy and contradiction from both sides of the political divide. At least David Cameron hasnt taken the Thatcher/Bliar approach and put their own voting group before the principle and keeping it consistent, albeit he didnt go far enough along this road.

As these benefits are universal, the proposition is that they should be targetted instead.
This means creating some sort of scheme to determine ones income and/or savings.
That is just called means testing, there are many ways to do this and its a difficult scheme to set up.
As you can have hard and fast rules as regards setting figures for annual income and/or savings to determine the cut off point for not receiving universal benefits, but the trouble with that approach is it doesnt take into consideration individual circumstances.
For example, a retired person may have £10,000 in the bank, may have a standard liveable pension, but needs the savings to pay for drugs.
Whereas, you may have a retired person whom lives in a mansion worth a million, yet has no savings and a low pension.

In my world, the former would still get the benefits, or some degree of the benefits (ie, they wouldnt get winter fuel allowance if they lived in spain), the latter would not, as they could live off their house.

A similar conundrum has occurred over child benefits.
In a way the government has just means tested this, saying anyone whom earns over 44,000 per year (i cant remember if i have this figure right???), no longer gets child benefit.
However, if one person is working in that household, they loose out, whereas if 2 people in the household earn, for example, 35,000 each, they having far more income than the former, yet still get the child benefit.

So its tricky, but yes, i agree with the principle that universal benefits should be means tested in some form or other, 40,000 may be too low though?

I think all benefits should be means tested, so that the poorer get more and the richer get less.

There is an arrogance in earning £40k plus per year and complaining about not getting child benefit.

everyone did get this, they have done always.