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Malka
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04-05-2012, 10:28 AM

Who is responsible?

I was in the kitchen and my front door, which opens outwards, was open with a length of rope tied to the handle and looped over a hook on the inside of the door frame.

The opening was exactly 27cm wide, enough for Pereg to go out and come back through, but no wider.

The distance between the door handle and the hook on the inside of the door frame is exactly 40cm.

A man came to the door, Pereg started barking, I called out for him to wait, and by the time I had gotten back into the salon he had put his arm through the open doorway and was trying to unhook the rope.

My question is this. If Pereg had gone for him [she did not, she just stood inside the doorway barking her head off], who would have been responsible?
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smokeybear
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04-05-2012, 10:31 AM
Originally Posted by Malka View Post
I was in the kitchen and my front door, which opens outwards, was open with a length of rope tied to the handle and looped over a hook on the inside of the door frame.

The opening was exactly 27cm wide, enough for Pereg to go out and come back through, but no wider.

The distance between the door handle and the hook on the inside of the door frame is exactly 40cm.

A man came to the door, Pereg started barking, I called out for him to wait, and by the time I had gotten back into the salon he had put his arm through the open doorway and was trying to unhook the rope.

My question is this. If Pereg had gone for him [she did not, she just stood inside the doorway barking her head off], who would have been responsible?

Is the question not irrelevant as your dog can get through whether or not a person has removed the rope?
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Malka
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04-05-2012, 10:36 AM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
Is the question not irrelevant as your dog can get through whether or not a person has removed the rope?
I know she can get through, that is why the door was open, but she is tethered to a 12 metre length of rope clipped onto her harness, which is fixed inside the door.

My question is that he had put his arm inside my home, trying to fully open the door, therefore who would have been responsible had Pereg gone for him. Not outside in my yard, but inside my salon.
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smokeybear
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04-05-2012, 10:41 AM
Originally Posted by Malka View Post
I know she can get through, that is why the door was open, but she is tethered to a 12 metre length of rope clipped onto her harness, which is fixed inside the door.

My question is that he had put his arm inside my home, trying to fully open the door, therefore who would have been responsible had Pereg gone for him. Not outside in my yard, but inside my salon.

But your dog can still go for anyone whether they are IN the house or OUT.

You are ultimately responsible for your dog's actions and, if in the UK certainly, you would have been deemed negligent as you failed in the duty of care you owe the public by failing to protect them from potential attack.

If your door had been CLOSED and LOCKED that is a different matter entirely.

It is a bit like who is responsible for stealing your car if you leave your keys in it.

That would be you from a civil point of view and your insurance company would fail to cough up.

From a criminal point of view, the thief would be responsible.

Not familiar with the laws in Israel.
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Malka
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04-05-2012, 10:54 AM
So my dog is supposed to just sit there and let a total stranger try to get into my home.

Incidentally, I do have third party insurance which covers any harm or accident she might cause, both inside and outside my home, whether tethered or, in the event of the rope/clip breaking, running loose.

I cannot see how someone coming into my front yard, down my path, and then trying to get into my house, compares with a car being left unlocked and with the keys in it.
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smokeybear
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04-05-2012, 11:02 AM
Originally Posted by Malka View Post
So my dog is supposed to just sit there and let a total stranger try to get into my home.

Incidentally, I do have third party insurance which covers any harm or accident she might cause, both inside and outside my home, whether tethered or, in the event of the rope/clip breaking, running loose.

I cannot see how someone coming into my front yard, down my path, and then trying to get into my house, compares with a car being left unlocked and with the keys in it.
What would happen if you were burgled and all your stuff was stolen?

Would your insurance company pay out?

No, because you had failed to adequately secure your property by locking your doors and windows.

These are the facts of life.

Whether or not you like them or not is irrelevant.

The same situation exists for your dog.

If your insurers are happy to insure you for the situations you describe knowing the circumstances eg dog on tether door not closed then they have accepted that level of risk.
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Malka
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04-05-2012, 11:36 AM
All doors and windows should be closed and locked at 2pm on a hot day when I am only going to be out of the room for a few minutes?
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Claudia
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04-05-2012, 11:41 AM
Sorry Smokeybear but I disagree with you.
Malka was home, not out so the whole "rule" of needing to lock your doors and windows does not go up.
The dog is giving a warning bark, the man still decides to go ahead and enter the house (without the owners permission!), dog attacks, too bad for the man!
That is the way it would go here in Oz.
Even if I leave my front door open wide and I happen to be out the back, I did NOT invite anyone to enter my house so if they therefore do decide to enter my house and get attacked by my dog, that is their problem....

Although I guess nowadays with people suing over the most stupid things, you can never be sure
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smokeybear
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04-05-2012, 11:44 AM
Originally Posted by Malka View Post
All doors and windows should be closed and locked at 2pm on a hot day when I am only going to be out of the room for a few minutes?
Well speaking from personal experience, when I lived in Iran, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia we had air conditioning.

If there was no a/c for whatever reason, we did not open doors and windows as of course all that did was let the hot air IN.

If you wish to keep windows open it is simple to secure them so that entry is impossible (same as in hotel windows) and if you wish to keep your doors open then you pays your money and takes your choice, you have accepted that level of risk.
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smokeybear
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04-05-2012, 11:47 AM
Originally Posted by Claudia View Post
Sorry Smokeybear but I disagree with you.
Malka was home, not out so the whole "rule" of needing to lock your doors and windows does not go up.The dog is giving a warning bark, the man still decides to go ahead and enter the house (without the owners permission!), dog attacks, too bad for the man!
That is the way it would go here in Oz.
Even if I leave my front door open wide and I happen to be out the back, I did NOT invite anyone to enter my house so if they therefore do decide to enter my house and get attacked by my dog, that is their problem....

Although I guess nowadays with people suing over the most stupid things, you can never be sure

Plenty of people are robbed and assaulted because they failed to secure their homes, it happens every week.

I am not familiar with civil law in Israel or in Australia hence why I gave the UK viewpoint (as opposed to my personal one) on this matter.

HTH
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