I think if you look back into the debates which have become heated on this subject Niclee you will find that the hostility is on both sides...the thing that tends to start the confliction is when Irish staff owners claim that KC reg are unfit ,useless lumps who can't breath properly etc.....the KC 'brigade' then come to their breeds defense.
On the whole though this board is very open about other peoples breeds and practices

Thats not nice at all.....I love the english staffs...people can be so silly!
By the way, what lovely people you all are on here!

Runstock, do I understand you to say they are, in fact, Staffordshire Bull terriers, if so why are they not called that and registered with the Irish and GB kennel clubs as such. Your reply has, if anything, confused the issue, surely either they are Staffordshire Bull Terriers or they are not, the fact that at some time they were used in some sort of test for 'gameness' (what does that mean) does not alter the breed so much that they can’t be registered as the breed you say they are, unless they have been cross bred in order to increase the 'gameness' in which case they are a crossbreed bred for a purpose like the Lurcher and in fairness to the Staffie should be given their own name and not that of some other breed. Can you explain further and what the term gameness means and what the test was that determined that a dog had this ‘virtue’ and how that turned a Staffordshire Bull terrier into a ISBT, thanks.

I think gameness is one of the most misunderstood terms

[quote="Lel"] Can you explain then please Lel, and why the ISBT has it and apparently the Staffie does not?

no Jackie -because I have heard gameness described as many different things by different people so that I wouldnt profess to fully understand the term myself

This might help

http://www.cosmos-staffords.co.uk/History/history.html



The dogs courage and gameness was then tested against each other as well as in the rat pits of the day. Due to bulldogs nature "grip and hold" a more athletic faster dog was required, a dog that could also be picked up easily if the need required a fast getaway. At this point it is widely rumored that the terrier blood may have been introduced. This then straightened the leg and helped create longish/er muzzle and were dogs of agility, speed and stamina. It was due to their exceptional gameness and fearlessness led the dogs there until dogfighting was legally abolished.

Hum, does that turn them into a different breed, don't think so Lel, perhaps we has better wait till Runsock (opps, sorry can't remember) tells us what was meant. Can't really see how the use a dog was put too changed them into another breed.

EDIT: sorry Runstock on sock - trouble with the quick answer you can't check back to help the fadding brain cells.

I'm no expert but one possible reason people are using 'different' names is because maybe they feel the majority of the 'breed' has sufficiently moved along and now, no longer fits the same catergory/type/breed as 'their' dogs?

For examle the bulldog has changed so much that people have started to (re)create bulldogs of yesteryear, and it is reflected in their name, 'old tyme bulldogs/Victorian bull dogs etc' or in the case of Staffs, 'old tyme staffords' and perhaps they are called the Irish Staff because people feel the 'irish' lines have stayed closer to the 'original' stafford?

Does that make sense to anyone?

makes sense to me