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Christine
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08-03-2006, 06:43 AM
Morning J

OK lets work 40 grms out, thats about a bit under 2 ounces. so 120= is about 5 ounces, sounds about right.
So how do you normally give it her? If you halve 120 thats 60gms to mix in with her meat meal twice a wk....I think if I`ve got my sums right

170gms for her meat meal is just under 7 ounces?? I feed a bit more than you.

So I`d split the 120gms of offal into 3 instaed of 2 & give 3 times a wk, better a small amount than large I think

Great about the tripe

ps how did you get on finding the probiotics?
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bellaluna
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08-03-2006, 08:39 AM
Sorry I think I got the wrong info there.

If its 40 grams a day then its 280 grams in one week. That you would split in 3? So about 90 grams.

Well before all this with her tummy, I had a great supplier.. We got a mix of cut offs of heart and liver very cheap.. But they suddenly decided to stop it, so I was left with having to buy the livers and other offals myself.. I decided I would give her a bit every day, but that's when her tummy started acting out, so didnt really get to try it out...

I was told that the mix we bought was cow and pig (heart and liver), and she had no problems with that.. was fed the entire weeks portion in one serving.

Would you then subtract the 90 grams from the meat portion? so 3 times a week she would get 90 grams offal and 80 grams meat ? Or feed the 90 grams offal AND 170 grams of meat?? I'm confused about that bit

I've been looking for that 3. bacteria... bulgaricus.. in the yogurts, but none of our yogurts mentions what bacterias they have...

I've found a probiotic with all 3 bacterias, but I still need to find out what the price is, so I'll be visiting a few healthshops and pharmacies on my days off next week
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Christine
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08-03-2006, 09:14 AM
B/L I`m a bit confused as well Let me tell you what I`d give.

50-75 gms or 2-3 ounces (working on 25gms=1 ounce) of liver or kidneys two or 3 times a wk, usually given with the meat meal Too much liver can cause d/rear, as you know. I don`t give my dogs any offal as they get whole animal, ie quails quite often & they come with the liver, kidneys & heads so I don`t have to give them any extra. Have a look in your book & see the amount they recommend cos I may be wrong in the amounts

And no, its given as well as the meat.

The 3 bacterias you`ll be looking for in the probiotic tabs, not the yoghurt, they`ll be to give as well as the live natural yoghurt, OK
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jess
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08-03-2006, 09:20 AM
Originally Posted by Christine
Hi Jess, interesting what you say about cottage cheese
Know its a v high quality for easily digested source of protein but not about making other foods digestable (if thats what your saying?) where did you get that from?
Hi Christine. I am not sure where i heard it from possibly billinghurst again. Essentialy cottage cheese is made from and carries lactic acid bacteria (responsible for its fermentation) this bacteria is in the same group as the lactic acid bacteria that are in solution/suspension in commercially made probiotic yoghurts/drinks. The bacteria are supposed to aid digestion, but interestingly if you really look into it they can survive in the stomach (acid environment) but doubtfully in the intestines (which is where major absorption takes place). I don't like stuff that is 'manufactured' (the bacteria are natural, why pay so much for them!) so tend to stay away from expensive probiotics**, but that doesn't mean that natural things don't contain them. (i know cottage cheese is made by man, but it has been around for a long long time, and people have used this historically for digestion) I personally feel happier using it. Also low fat natural yoghurt is a good source (i reckon its why those mediterraneans are so healthy!!)


**yet another example for how the media 'brain washes' us into believing what we _need_ in our lives (sorry, i can't help myself can I !!)
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bellaluna
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08-03-2006, 10:54 AM
Ahhh okay then.. so the liver is beside the meat.. Okay then.. That helps a bit
I believe the books say 10% of the diet.. That's where my 40 grams a day are from

And I'm to keep feeding the Cultura while I feed the Trevis (that's what the probiotic is called)? Okay.. For how long..? Forever??
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Christine
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08-03-2006, 11:31 AM
Yep liver is part of the diet with meat but I`ll check up bit later on some of my books

As I don`t know what cultura is or contains I`d give plain unsweetend live yoghurt (instead of cultura) together WITH the probiotic (trevis) daily for a good while yet, at the very least a mth if you can & see how things are then

It maybe forever but I`d be very very hopeful you maybe able to drop the probiotic when her digestive system is fully working, just depends when that maybe & these d/rear episodes are just a little blip. When my youngsters had probs I gave them yoghurt daily for a couple of yrs, used to make my own & very often gave them the drink actimel as well. I couldn`t get probiotics then
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zero
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08-03-2006, 12:24 PM
I know what you mean about offal J...

It is widely recomended to feed offal at approx 10% of the diet...I see what J is saying...She normally gives it little and often each day, I.E. she works out what 10% of Luna's complete diet is for each day and feeds that amount of offal each day instead of a bigger amount 1 or 2 times a week, suppossing 40g is 10% of Luna's complete diet for each day she is feeding 40g of offal a day. Where if she was to feed it say once a week she would be feeding 40g x 7 days = 280g in one day.

This is something I have been trying to work out too! that is why I know so well what J is saying...lol

If the dogs can get diarreoh on offal would it not be worse if fed all in one go...Or does the amount of offal to feed over 7 days not amount to 10% of everyday?? Just 10% of only the days you decide to feed it?

Hopefully we can explain this one J...LOL
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bellaluna
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08-03-2006, 12:50 PM
Oh Mys you hit it spot on

That was what I wanted to say, but just got blabbering instead

The Cultura is yogurt, but also contains 2 of the 3 bacteria you've mentioned before. Bifido and L Adi.. (something).. I guess Cultura is just the name

I can find it on a danish site.. Will try and do a google when I get home, to see if I can find anything in english..

Well I'll better be ordering loads of the Trevis then

oooh I know that drinking Actimel.. we have that here.. in tiny jugs
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Christine
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08-03-2006, 01:32 PM
Hiya Mys & B/L

I`ll do one post for both of you hope you don`t mind

Mys, I`ve got most of the books on raw, or a lot anyway. I`ve been feeding raw for going on 5yrs & I think you are both getting bogged down in %`s & trying very hard to get it exact. Now I understand totally how you are looking at it, I was like that as well But I found once I relaxed more about things it all came a lot easier & I felt a lot better about feeding this way. Feeding is not an exact science, not even for humans never mind dogs.

So I`m not sure I understand the % but I`d say a few ounces of raw liver on top of their meat a couple of times a wk would be fine. I`ll let you work the percents out & tell me if its right or not
And yes, agree its best to serve little several times rather than a large sitting of it once, definately. This is one of the reasons I try to feed *whole* animals & my lot get whole quails so I don`t need to add extra liver. And I have my dogs full panel blood tested to check everythings OK, once a yr. So far alls normal

Remember its a very rich food, I like this sites info
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-...pplements.html

B/L ok if culturas a yoghurt thats fine, specially its its got 2 of the bacteria & if you want you can just give her that with an actimel now & again or maybe save that for a next time, that hopefully won`t happen tho
My worry was that Lunas d/rear would be/go chronic but it doesn`t look that way now & its just a blip so I wanted you to have the probiotics along with the yoghurt. I`m a big believer in having everything in I possibly may need *just in case*

So everythings settled down stick to cultura daily & stop worrying
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zero
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08-03-2006, 02:05 PM
Thanks Christine...I think me and Jeanette are similar in that we actually find the percentages easier if you can believe that...lol...and that is even with me being rubbish at maths!

I get the whole idea about replicating the 'whole prey' I will be feeding alot of whole chicken, rabbit etc etc, but I think these are going to be already cleaned out with no inerds in so to speak, so they will be getting all the meat and bone but will most likely have to add the offal anyway...and then on days when they don't get the whole prey but say a breast of lamb I will need to include offal...

It still leaves me wondering if to feed 10% for every day or just 10% for the one or two days I feed it, if I choose to do it that way.

I.E: My boy Takoda is 40kg so if I feed him say about 2.5% of food a day out of his total body weight, that makes 1kg of food in total each day. I am going to start off on 2.5% of his body weight at first then adjust if I need to, if he is getting to big on it, make the amount less, to skinny vica versa.

Anyway 10% of 1kg total food a day (1000g) is 100g. Should I feed that everyday or just a couple times a week!!
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