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Location: cornwall uk
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,132
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02-10-2009, 12:48 PM
Originally Posted by CheekyChihuahua 
And that's what it's all about with some, isn't it? (above in bold). I'm here to give my views, to answer questions as best I can, to discuss and listen NOT WIN an argument but it's clear that some are here on a point scoring mission
You clearly can't treat children and dogs in the same way in certain circumstances, as I've already highlighted. Yes, there are certain aspects of dog training that kind of overlap with training a child, as in rewarding good behaviour (not in a treats sense but with praise and encouragement) and ignoring bad (in some circumstances with both child and dog behaviour). However, when discussing how to deal with a child that is aggressive, out of control.......................it's a bit different to dealing with a dog that's lost the plot. For one, the child's unlikely to take your fingers off and the dog is definitely not going to shout verbal abuse. Each situation is unique and I'm sorry but NO I cannot compare dog/child in the scenario you have set out. If you want to consider that because of that, I've lost the argument, feel free. I'm not here to win arguments, just to discuss.
Yes---I do feel you have lost the argument---I am OK with discussions but when it comes to someone who happily strangles a dog on TV and then is supported by 'dog lovers' I think it is important to find holes in their reasoning.
rune
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Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
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02-10-2009, 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by scarter
My observation is that most people tell their dogs off for growling - nothing to do with watching CM. People tell of their kids for being rude and think it right to do the same with their dogs.
only people who don`t realise that dogs don`t speak their language! The rest of us aren`t that daft
Even dogs that are NEVER told off for growling will often attack without warning.
Yours might. Mine don`t. And nice, well behaved, stable dogs DO attack weak or unstable dogs - it's instinctive.
Good lord, I`m glad I don`t live in your world. In my world, dogs avoid confrontation because the other animal also has great big teeth and starting a ruck without good reason is a lousy survival trait.
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Location: Wiltshire, UK
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,374
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02-10-2009, 01:06 PM
Then we can all agree to disagree and be on our merry way.
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Location: n/a
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,459
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02-10-2009, 01:10 PM
Originally Posted by rune
The children I taught WOULD take your fingers off if they could get at them when they lost the plot.
Yes---I do feel you have lost the argument---I am OK with discussions but when it comes to someone who happily strangles a dog on TV and then is supported by 'dog lovers' I think it is important to find holes in their reasoning.
rune
We all have a right to our opinions, even on the CM subject
Why can't you just accept that we don't all think the same. Because I don't see things the same as you, I don't say you are "blind" or that you have "lost an argument." It doesn't make any sense to me. Why not be more like Wys, BenMcF, Mish (to name but a few) that look for common ground between the antis and the pros, so that we can build on that. Your attitude just makes the gap wider.
Tbh, I didn't expect us to get anywhere, I almost didn't reply to your initial post aimed at me but I'm glad I did. It kind of confirmed what I already knew but at least now I know there's no point "going there"
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Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
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02-10-2009, 01:13 PM
Originally Posted by Pidge
It's clear the only way this discussion will ever end is when the pro CM-ers look at some of the video clips posted on here and say how they felt about it.
Then we can all agree to disagree and be on our merry way.
Pigheadedness is a a human trait..and even with the sound turned off, and trying to watch with an unbiased eye... they will never give in...or thats they way it seems.... its a fight to the death on an opinion, and hell would freeze over before some will say....... well actually , there may be something in ALL the evidence against!!
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Location: n/a
Joined: Sep 2008
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02-10-2009, 01:14 PM
Originally Posted by Pidge
I think there is a difference between loving something and loving and respecting something.
I'm sure many parent child abusers love their children.
I'm getting that "is it worth it feeling again......."
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Location: n/a
Joined: Sep 2008
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02-10-2009, 01:16 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
they already have "sadly" and still dont wake up to smell the coffee.
Pigheadedness is a a human trait..and even with the sound turned off, and trying to watch with an unbiased eye... they will never give in...or thats they way it seems.... its a fight to the death on an opinion, and hell would freeze over before some will say....... well actually , there may be something in ALL the evidence against!!
Great world you live in where you are always right and everyone who disagrees is wrong
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Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
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02-10-2009, 01:21 PM
Originally Posted by CheekyChihuahua
I can't say more than I already have that I failed Fluffles miserably on this one. It is a difficult one because I do understand that dogs live "in the moment" but how do you address a dog that has destroyed something, after the event????? I'm not perfect (far from) and I'm open to suggestions. Like I've said (sorry to keep repeating) it isn't a massive problem but one I've struggled to decide on a good way of dealing with. If it happened daily say, or even weekly, I dare say I'd have got my act together but she may go weeks and weeks without destroying some leather item and so I assume she's passed the phase, until that bitten up shoe/wallet/purse appears before me. However, I've listened to a couple of good ideas on this thread and I will address it.
But just to reiterate, I do realise I HAVE MESSED UP on this particular issue with Fluffles *holds hands up*
Touching on the Gnasher situation briefly, it certainly wasn't obvious to me one way or the other but Gnasher has a fab sense of humour and so I think she most likely did say in jest. Give her a break, eh
It happened to me the other day, got decorators in, had to go out, locked the dog sin the living room, done this many times before,
To my utter horror when I came home , one of them had tried to chew its way out through the door,,,,,,,,,,,, this is something neither of mine in both their lifetimes has ever done beofre... god knows why they decided to do it
What was the point in my telling them off, showing them the damage...
the time had lapsed, all they were bothered with was, saying "hello"I took it on the chin, gave the decorator an new job to do, and will make sure I never leave them in there again.
I dont believe you have failed because you have a chewer, just , make sure there is nothing o chew, if they get something, then tell yourself or whoever left it off!! not the dog.
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Location: Wiltshire, UK
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,374
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02-10-2009, 01:24 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
they already have "sadly" and still dont wake up to smell the coffee.
Pigheadedness is a a human trait..and even with the sound turned off, and trying to watch with an unbiased eye... they will never give in...or thats they way it seems.... its a fight to the death on an opinion, and hell would freeze over before some will say....... well actually , there may be something in ALL the evidence against!!
Call me bonkers but I just cannot see how anyone can watch that link that Ramble posted a few pages back and not see him for being an egotistical jerk who thinks that ''dominating'' dogs is a good idea. Drives me potty!!! I actually found it very upsetting to see that clip.
And no CC I'm not saying you (collective) ''abuse'' your dogs if you follow CM methods, but I do feel that most of the things he does are cruel and unnecessary. Categorise that how you see fit.
I can't remember the name of the dog and I've mentioned it already on here, ages ago but there was one show (the last time I ever watched him) where the dog was ''dominating''' the bed. Caesar shoved a slip lead around it's neck and when it grumbled he yanked it hard. The dog yelped, jumped off and cowered in the corner. We were then subjected the CM's smug face saying ''see, he calm now, he wont be going on the bed again because he knows who is boss is''. WTF? No wonder, they'll be lucky if the dog ever goes in the bedroom again as it was clearly **** scared!!
How can you agree with someone who does that to animals??????????????