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waggytail
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02-06-2016, 01:08 PM
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
. Why the hell should my well trained, well bred, trustworthy Staffie be lumped in with ill bred untrained dogs owned by idiots. I'm an excellent dog owner
But what about when things go wrong, for other people? for other dogs? We DO have a problem here so what PREVENTATIVE measures can we take?

For example, a start would be to clamp down on bad breeders, Like Azz suggested, to successfully remove unwanted breed traits. strong Legislation on this could ensure that All dogs were well bred and much more difficult for "bad people" to corrupt?
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Crysania
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02-06-2016, 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by waggytail View Post
But what about when things go wrong, for other people? for other dogs? We DO have a problem here so what PREVENTATIVE measures can we take?

For example, a start would be to clamp down on bad breeders, Like Azz suggested, to successfully remove unwanted breed traits. strong Legislation on this could ensure that All dogs were well bred and much more difficult for "bad people" to corrupt?
The same thing would have to happen for ALL dog breeds. There are people breeding Golden Retrievers that are aggressive these days. They would need to be controlled too.

GOOD breeders are always trying to remove unwanted breed traits while trying to retain what makes the dog breed. For instance, many people might consider a herding dog grabbing at ankles to be undesirable. It scares children, certainly. But it's part of the breed and so do we remove all herding abilities to stop dogs from trying to herd children?

The problem here is that you are talking about restricting SOME breeds while not restricting others. You cannot say "Well, we're ok with bad breeders of Golden Retrievers and Labs, even though we're seeing more and more of them being aggressive but we're going to restrict all Pit bulls and Rottweilers."

I see MANY small breed dogs with seriously bad temperaments. The Shiba inu that went after my dog and then attacked ME because my dog refused to back down? It jumped and bit me HARD on the thigh. What if I had had a 5 year old child with me? That dog could have bit the heck out of that child's face, causing serious damage or even death. But that's ok because it's not a large dog? It's not a pit bull?

There is, sadly, no way around the fact that some dogs WILL attack. What the solution is, I don't know. Certainly anti-chaining laws (many dogs who attack are chained). I'd love for their to be mandatory training and socialization classes, but that would require either a lot of money from the government or for people to put out money they might not have. There are also a LOT of bad trainers out there. I'd rather a dog be a bit wild than be trained by a company like Sit Means Sit, which uses shock collars in the absolute worst way possible. Shutting down puppy mills and restricting breeding while still allowing good breeders to breed.

But for me legislation would have to be across the board. I do not agree and never WILL agree that we should restrict SOME breeds and not others. The fact is 99.999% of pit bulls go about their daily business just being dogs. I don't agree with legislating the breed out of existence because a tiny fraction of the dogs attack.
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waggytail
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02-06-2016, 01:24 PM
Sorry but yes, I say again I do believe some breeds of dog are more dangerous than others. not just because they are bigger than other dogs but because of how they were selectively bred. If these breeds are then targeted for poor breeding and misuse then yes these breeds are more dangerous than others. its a combination of factors that would highlight if a particular breed would require legislation.
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waggytail
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02-06-2016, 01:34 PM
I do take your points Crysania, there are many different issues here and we are never going to solve this over a forum thread. I actually feel quite sad now....
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Crysania
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02-06-2016, 01:37 PM
I'm sorry but you're absolutely not making sense and it sounds like you don't actually know these breeds. Which is not a surprise. You banned them over there so rarely see them. I am surrounded by pit bulls and their various breeds and mixtures every day. I would say I have a lot more experience with the breed and I can tell you they are NOT any more dangerous than any other dog. It's just reality, sorry. But you're wrong.

The pit bulls I meet and know are silly, smart, and super people friendly dogs. You're far more likely to get licked to death than anything else by one. You just have to watch out for those hard noggins. One friend was training her pit bull in agility and she was bending over him, got excited he did something right and he leapt straight up in the air in excitement. He broke her nose and knocked her unconscious. I guess that's "dangerous."

Sorry but it's just ridiculous to say a dog is more dangerous than another dog when they're simply not. ALL dogs have the potential to be dangerous. Period.
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waggytail
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02-06-2016, 01:55 PM
Originally Posted by Crysania View Post
I am surrounded by pit bulls and their various breeds and mixtures every day. I would say I have a lot more experience with the breed and I can tell you they are NOT any more dangerous than any other dog. The pit bulls I meet and know are silly, smart, and super people friendly dogs. You're far more likely to get licked to death than anything else,
Need to log off now.. Good to end on this positive note?
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Trouble
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02-06-2016, 02:32 PM
The problem as always is the people who want sanctions against certain breeds and owners have no in depth knowledge of the breeds concerned. I know quite a few Staffies, we bump into loads on walks only one of those is aggressive and only with dogs. He's no threat to anyone as he's always on lead and always happy to see me.
What breeds are we talking about here apart from Staffies?
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Moobli
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02-06-2016, 06:56 PM
I am also on the side of deed not breed.

Banning breeds only makes those breeds (and types) MORE coveted by the sort of people who should not own ANY dog.

Any breed, crossbreed, mongrel etc can bite and cause injury.
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Trouble
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02-06-2016, 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by waggytail View Post
But what about when things go wrong, for other people? for other dogs? We DO have a problem here so what PREVENTATIVE measures can we take?

For example, a start would be to clamp down on bad breeders, Like Azz suggested, to successfully remove unwanted breed traits. strong Legislation on this could ensure that All dogs were well bred and much more difficult for "bad people" to corrupt?
I'm not responsible for other people but the first thing to do is clamp down on owners who let their dogs run riot, Breeders can follow cos an 8 week old puppy is malleable in the right hands. If we're still talking about Staffies they don't have aggressive breed traits, read the kc breed description. A well bred dog in the wrong hands can still be corrupted.
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waggytail
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03-06-2016, 08:09 AM
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
What breeds are we talking about here apart from Staffies?
Great Britain:

In this country since 1991 enacted the Act on dangerous dogs which was completed in 1997. According to this document ban on the cultivation, sale, purchase, exchange and promotionis introduced for the following dogs:

1.American Pitbull Terrier
2.Dogo Argentino
3.Fila Brasileiro (Brazilian Mastiff)
4.Tosa Inu

The above-mentioned breeds must be muzzled and kept on a leash in public places, be registered, have insurance, be spayed, stamped and have a chip.
The law applies to the whole country except for the Northern Ireland.


Ireland:

Restrictions on the ownership of dangerous dogs breeds entered in 1998. They must be kept under strict control by people of 16 years or older, be licensed, walked on a short leash (no more than 2 metres) and muzzled in public places. As especially dangerous breeds in Ireland are recognized:

1.American Pitbull Terrier
2.English Bull Terrier
3.Akita Inu
4.Bullmastiff
5.Doberman Pinscher
6.Staffordshire Bull Terrier
7.German Shepherd Dog
8.Rhodesian Ridgeback

USA:

In America there is no Federal law that imposed a ban and restrictions on dangerous breeds of dogs across the country. There is a law that prohibits the conduct of dog fighting, as well as training these dogs for fighting and their movement within the country.
There is a prohibition on the housing of large dogs in the cantonments of the U.S.А. army like Pitbulls, Rottweilers and hybrids of these species. Municipal authorities had taken several hundreds of laws banning the ownership of such dogs as:

1.Staffordshire Bull Terrier
2.American Pitbull Terrier
3.American Staffordshire Terrier
4.Dogo Argentino
5.American Bulldog
6.Tosa Inu
7.Dogo Canario
8.Cane Corso
9.Fila Brasileiro (Brazilian Mastiff)
10.Akita Inu
11.Dogue de Bordeaux
12.Bandog
13.Bullmastiff
14.Doberman Pinscher
15.Ca de Bou (Majorca Mastiff)
16.Kuvasz
17.German Shepherd
18.Mastino Neapolitano
19.Rottweiler
20.Chow Chow
21.Japanese Mastiff
22.Mixtures of wolves
23.Hybrids of the above-mentioned breeds

Limitations of ownership in some States include: the age of the owner must be at least 21 years, the amount of liability insurance must be 100 000 $, prohibition the sale of dangerous dogs, the dog can given only to relatives, at private homes be sure to hang warning signs.


(Copied from https://petolog.com/articles/banned-dogs)
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