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Westie_N
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12-01-2012, 12:08 PM
I'm Scottish and proud of it. I consider myself Scottish first, and British after that. My choice, my feelings.

In some ways I think it would be a good idea, in other ways it would not and we couldn't just take the good things and forget the rest, we would have to take it all.

As far as politicians go, I think Alex Salmond is a very good one, however, he's more or less a one man band, so if something happened to him, where would that leave us?

It would also mean, as far as I'm aware, that we will have to join the Euro which I do not personally want to do (please someone correct me if I'm wrong on this).

I'm still looking in to it, so I'm not aware of all the ins and outs, but this is, so far, how I feel on it.

I'm pretty sure though most English people would love it if we were to become an independant nation!
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Jet&Copper
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12-01-2012, 12:20 PM
I'm Scottish and would vote no.
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shirls
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12-01-2012, 12:22 PM
If it means we become more involved in Europe and have to use the Euro then my vote will be NO
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alexgirl73
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12-01-2012, 12:45 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
why wouldnt you manage financially now?
you have the oil
No we don't! It's 'owned' by the large oil companies, and paid to Westminster, you really think they would give that up. Scotland doesn't have rights over it's waters in the same way as places like Norway and such have (think about the travesty of the fishing 'rights'), and also that oil is supposed to run out in 2050. Only 38 years from now. What happens to the republic of Scotland once that's gone?? And as for being part of the euro?? Words fail me If Scotland ever does slide back into the dark ages of independance, then I will be one of the first to sign up for English citizenship!
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Laura-Anne
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12-01-2012, 12:56 PM
I'm Scottish first British second. I vote snp and fully believe in the party.

Independence though I am on the fence about I will be doing a lot of research before the referendum for sure anyway
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Krusewalker
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12-01-2012, 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by Westie_N View Post
I'm Scottish and proud of it. I consider myself Scottish first, and British after that. My choice, my feelings.

In some ways I think it would be a good idea, in other ways it would not and we couldn't just take the good things and forget the rest, we would have to take it all.

As far as politicians go, I think Alex Salmond is a very good one, however, he's more or less a one man band, so if something happened to him, where would that leave us?

It would also mean, as far as I'm aware, that we will have to join the Euro which I do not personally want to do (please someone correct me if I'm wrong on this).

I'm still looking in to it, so I'm not aware of all the ins and outs, but this is, so far, how I feel on it.

I'm pretty sure though most English people would love it if we were to become an independant nation!
scottish independenceindependence has nothing to do with the european union or the euro. scotland would have to apply to join both
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Jet&Copper
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12-01-2012, 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by alexgirl73 View Post
No we don't! It's 'owned' by the large oil companies, and paid to Westminster, you really think they would give that up. Scotland doesn't have rights over it's waters in the same way as places like Norway and such have (think about the travesty of the fishing 'rights'), and also that oil is supposed to run out in 2050. Only 38 years from now. What happens to the republic of Scotland once that's gone?? !
My thoughts exactly. As far as I'm aware (and I'm not an expert in this subject by any means), the vast majority of the money in Scotland comes from the London-based economy.
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Krusewalker
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12-01-2012, 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by alexgirl73 View Post
No we don't! It's 'owned' by the large oil companies, and paid to Westminster, you really think they would give that up. Scotland doesn't have rights over it's waters in the same way as places like Norway and such have (think about the travesty of the fishing 'rights'), and also that oil is supposed to run out in 2050. Only 38 years from now. What happens to the republic of Scotland once that's gone?? And as for being part of the euro?? Words fail me If Scotland ever does slide back into the dark ages of independance, then I will be one of the first to sign up for English citizenship!
I would disagree.
An independant scotland would include its territorial waters, just like any country.
Just like norway, and the UK at the moment, they would sell the drilling rights to oil companies.
The fishing rights werent limited due to the waters not being scottish/UK terrotorial waters, they were limited due to agreements the UK agreed when joining the EEC.

In theory, Scotland would not be part of the euro if they became independant.
Firstly the UK isnt at the moment.
Their is no precedent of part of a member state of the EU breaking away into independance. Bear in mind the EU is pretty crafty at finding 'loopholes', so im sure they can cme up with some form of automatic membership of the EU piggy backed on the previous membership via the UK.

However, as the UK conservative, liberal, and labour parties all commit to a people's referendum if and when it was proposed the Uk join the Euro, one assumes the scottish versions of those parties would have the same policy for an independant scotland.

And i cannot see the SNP, after years of campaigning on referendums for independance, opposing a referendum on these issues. Sure fire vote loser if they wish to remain the government of any future independant scotland.

Other EU member states might also oppose such a loophole deal, as it may encourage successionist areas in their own countries.

Therefore the reality is most likely the scottish gov at the time would need to get a yes vote in a referendum, then apply and then be accepted as an EU member.
Then after membership they would need to 'qualify' for the euro.
Current EU membership criteria compels all EU member states that arent part of the Euro to eventually join, apart from DK and UK, whom have opt outs.
Bear in mind though, all this would take years, and the eurozone area, and its EU related rules, would most likely have changed by then, due to the current crisis.

Also Alex Salmond has toyed with the idea of joining EFTA instead of EU.

Its true the oil only has the most 50 years left.
Then a small country like scotland would be no different to many other small countries.
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alexgirl73
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12-01-2012, 04:41 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
I would disagree.
An independant scotland would include its territorial waters, just like any country.
Just like norway, and the UK at the moment, they would sell the drilling rights to oil companies.
The fishing rights werent limited due to the waters not being scottish/UK terrotorial waters, they were limited due to agreements the UK agreed when joining the EEC.

In theory, Scotland would not be part of the euro if they became independant.
Firstly the UK isnt at the moment.
Their is no precedent of part of a member state of the EU breaking away into independance. Bear in mind the EU is pretty crafty at finding 'loopholes', so im sure they can cme up with some form of automatic membership of the EU piggy backed on the previous membership via the UK.

However, as the UK conservative, liberal, and labour parties all commit to a people's referendum if and when it was proposed the Uk join the Euro, one assumes the scottish versions of those parties would have the same policy for an independant scotland.

And i cannot see the SNP, after years of campaigning on referendums for independance, opposing a referendum on these issues. Sure fire vote loser if they wish to remain the government of any future independant scotland.

Other EU member states might also oppose such a loophole deal, as it may encourage successionist areas in their own countries.

Therefore the reality is most likely the scottish gov at the time would need to get a yes vote in a referendum, then apply and then be accepted as an EU member.
Then after membership they would need to 'qualify' for the euro.
Current EU membership criteria compels all EU member states that arent part of the Euro to eventually join, apart from DK and UK, whom have opt outs.
Bear in mind though, all this would take years, and the eurozone area, and its EU related rules, would most likely have changed by then, due to the current crisis.

Also Alex Salmond has toyed with the idea of joining EFTA instead of EU.

Its true the oil only has the most 50 years left.
Then a small country like scotland would be no different to many other small countries.
Theories are all good and well, however Herr Salmond would have us signed up before the ink was even dry. Scotland would NOT have the automatic rights to it's own waters

Scotland would be given no choice but to leave the pound at independence, and no choice but to adopt the Euro if it joins the EU. So what if Scotland wishes to join another economic syndicate, or become isolated from the rest of Europe?

Since the seventies, oil has been bought in Dollars. This was brought in to simplify things for OPEC members (some of whom would like to see the Euro as the default currency for exporting oil). This means that no matter what currency Scotland uses, it will be selling its oil according to the rate of the US Dollar and OPEC rates. The amount you receive from oil revenues as a Government with control of tax depends on your currency versus the dollar – so would Scotland’s petrocurrency be up to the task of ensuring ongoing revenues?

Probably not, and here are some reasons why:

1. Scotland could take years getting access to whatever reserves are deemed to be its own.

2. If independence comes before 2030, then there are only 20 or so years before decommissioning of platforms.

3. Other nations with a wealth of oil can resist changes in the dollar and oil prices through other exports and investment.

4. Scotland may join the EU and be forced to use the Euro, making for less of a buffer against oil price fluctuations.

However Scotland could benefit greatly from oil revenue, however the risks of taking a value estimate and a cost estimate and assuming exponential increases towards 2050 is economically negligent.

Should Scotland receive independence, it would take years to see oil revenues properly allocated from the North Sea. This amount could be far less than expected. The value of the revenues to the people of Scotland would depend on the OPEC rates, currency and whatever means of buffering fluctuation the Scottish Central Bank has.

Pro-independence supporters suggest that there is too much dependence on the UK, however we believe that independence would shift the need for the UK towards the need for oil – turning our country into one where the value of money in personal accounts is dependent on how well a foreign power is exporting oil, and how much a developing nation is importing.

Independence would be oildependence, until it finally disappears.
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Lionhound
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12-01-2012, 04:44 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
why wouldnt you manage financially now?
you have the oil
I cannot recall the exact figures at present but I think there is a short fall of approx 17 billion. I don't know if the oil revenue would automatically be Scottish because I don't know what deals were done 30 years ago and what theyinclude. Even if the oil did default to us, I don't know it's real worth now.

A few years ago, Southern Ireland was held up a perfect example of a small nation who had no industry but with the support of Europe, was thriving and look how that is turning out. I don't see how Scotland would be any different, we as a people are just not progressive enough to make it work..
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