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Malka
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15-04-2012, 08:51 AM
Originally Posted by Luthien View Post
Yes, I'm a vegetarian. I did used to enjoy eating meat, but did not feel that my enjoyment was worth the deliberate killing of animals. (And no, meat is not necessary, I've managed fine without it for 24 years!)

I do not push my views onto my animals though, who I'm sure would argue that is IS worth it, so they are certainly not vegetarians!
Thank you for an honest answer.
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Jackie
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15-04-2012, 09:08 AM
Originally Posted by Ripsnorterthe2nd View Post
Playing devils advocate here: is there really a huge difference? Humans are omnivores so can survive without eating meat, so how much difference is there between having an animal die so you can enjoy eating it's flesh, to having an animal die so you can enjoy placing a bet???

Either way the animal dies to provide emjoyment for human beings......
Originally Posted by lilypup View Post
As with anything where the subject doesn't have a choice in the matter, justification i.e. Race horses love to race, is banded about. Horses are flight animals. Put them in a flight situation and they will run, jump and do anything to get away from perceived danger.

If horses love to jump and run so much, why are they kept in fields with fences they could jump at any moment. Because of course they love to jump don't they....
Can I ask, have you ever owned a horse/pony, because I can tell you from someone who has, that fences don`t always keep horses in, if they want to get to another field a fence will not stop them.

Not all horses love to jump,. some are jumpers some are not, some you could not get over a pole on the ground if they don`t want to go, others are BRED to jump, and its what they do best.

The national hunt horses are bred to jump, its in their genes, its what they do best.

Horses die everyday of the week, they die in fields , stables , out hacking , show jumping, eventing and fun rides.

they are fragile creatures at the end of the day, should we never do anything risky with them and wrap them in cotton wool, and never allow then out of the stable , or paddock, but then, thats where many of the accidents happen, so what should we do then??
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Jackie
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15-04-2012, 09:14 AM
Originally Posted by lozzibear View Post
I have heard this argument many times before, but I do not agree with it.

There are always dangers in life, with everything we do. Every time we step out of the door, there is a chance we could be injured or even killed. Heck, even in the house there are dangers. But we do not lock ourselves up, that is no quality of life at all. We do however, make decisions and weigh up the dangers of what we do (well, most people do).

It is the same as dogs, the risks are always there. On walks, treats/chews, toys etc, but you need to make an educated decision on what is a reasonable risk to take. I know anything could happen on a walk, but I still choose to walk my dog because otherwise, he would have a low quality life IMO. I know the risk is there, but given the number of dogs that are walked, and the frequency and the number of injuries that occur, I don't think the risk is too high.

I think the same goes for horses, they need to be out in a paddock, and have suitable exercise. I don't believe horses NEED to race, and I certainly don't believe they need to race in such a notoriously hard race. People do it for themselves, not for the horses.

I would never put an animal I loved in to something where the chances of serious injury and/or death were so high.
So its OK, for you to take risks with yourself or your dogs, because they need quality of life

But its not OK, for others (becuase you dont like it) to give their animals qaulity of life..........


Mmmmmmmmm a little hypocrisy there I think ,
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ClaireandDaisy
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15-04-2012, 09:15 AM
Having ridden horses I know that they will take off and get excited by this and that running and jumping are natural actions for them. We use this to our own advantage.
However the GN course is designed to test the horse to the limits, and offer huge rewards for the humans involved, which is unethical IMO.
There is a great incentive for riders to take chances and to push a tired horse into mistakes. How would a jockey ever work again if he pulled up the horse because it had lost impetus or energy?
The course needs to be closed down.
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Jackie
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15-04-2012, 09:18 AM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
Having ridden horses I know that they will take off and get excited by this and that running and jumping are natural actions for them. We use this to our own advantage.
However the GN course is designed to test the horse to the limits, and offer huge rewards for the humans involved, which is unethical IMO.
There is a great incentive for riders to take chances and to push a tired horse into mistakes. How would a jockey ever work again if he pulled up the horse because it had lost impetus or energy?
The course needs to be closed down.
What about Cheltenham, and any other course that has had fatalities, what about point to point courses, should they also be closed down, due to fatalities, lets not leave out, the event courses, they have fatalities too, have witnessed a few myself when fence judging.

Not forgetting any fun ride/hunt fence /show jump that also has fatalities, do we need to close them as well
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celli
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15-04-2012, 09:44 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Being worked and raced are very different. Im pretty sure the industry Vets and experts are sure of what they endorse does not harm the animal.
Worked as in other equestrian disciplines, not manual work.

Originally Posted by Luthien View Post
This is what annoys me the most.

Self righteous people being appalled about two animals dying, then going on to tuck into their Sunday lunch tomorrow.
Pardon ?, are you then suggesting that if someone eats meat they have no right to have view's on animal welfare ?.
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Luthien
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15-04-2012, 09:58 AM
Originally Posted by celli View Post

Pardon ?, are you then suggesting that if someone eats meat they have no right to have view's on animal welfare ?.
I am suggesting that I find it very odd that anyone who directly contributes to an animals death for their own pleasure can be so appalled by the accidental death of two particular animals.
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EmmiS
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15-04-2012, 10:02 AM
Every single course has fatalities, in the same way that every single XC course has probably lamed hundreds of horses and horses have died falling off the Hickstead bank in show jumping.

The difference between other courses (and remember aintree has a normal racecourse too) is that races run on other courses, do not attract a number of deaths in the same race year after year

There was a race the day before the national called the topham, that saw nothing like the carnage that was seen 24 hours later over the same course.

The issue with the national is the speed they covered the first section was not dissimilar to record breaking Sprinter Sacre, who runs over two miles. Not 4.5!

Those who say they don't love it, read up on Frankel, and maybe watch a couple of his races, he is a total monster, and will command the most ridiculous of stud fess (rumoured to break 100k barrier for a first season), but owners/trainer/breeding operation he's connected to have said to keep him in training, because he LOVES to do it.
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Chris
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15-04-2012, 10:18 AM
Can't substantiate this, but I'm sure it's reasonably easy enough to check on. It was posted on a social networking site that in the last 12 months 41 horses have lost their lives through racing.

Yes, I will tuck into my Sunday lunch, but, no, I don't see how this can possibly be right
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Malka
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15-04-2012, 10:28 AM
Originally Posted by Brierley View Post
Can't substantiate this, but I'm sure it's reasonably easy enough to check on. It was posted on a social networking site that in the last 12 months 41 horses have lost their lives through racing.

Yes, I will tuck into my Sunday lunch, but, no, I don't see how this can possibly be right
http://www.horsedeathwatch.com/
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