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catrinsparkles
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16-09-2013, 10:15 AM
And when he's upstairs with us, and his bed is upstairs, he sleeps in the corner all night and doesn't ask to get on the bed until either Paul gets out or Merryn gets in at 6am.
Which makes me wonder why I am pressing home the ' you must sleep downstairs rule' when him sleeping upstairs with us actually suits everyone!
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Tang
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16-09-2013, 10:29 AM
Catrin the only thing that stands out to me is that you need him to be OK to be left BEFORE you take him out at all. I've never had a dog that I've had to do that with and I'd hate to think what they'd be like if I did. I always take the dog out before leaving it alone. Even if only round the block. Then put it back in and leave right away.

If I'm going to be leaving for any length of time I wouldn't do it unless they'd had a good walk first. If for no other reason than I'd be worried they'd be barking and howling while I was gone! Them not understanding why they didn't come with me.

All my dogs have quickly grasped that if they've just been out with me they are not coming with me if I go out again soon after we return.

I'm seeing it from the dog's point - looking forward to seeing you all at the start of the day and then - you all poodle off and leave him!
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Mattie
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16-09-2013, 10:40 AM
Both Cyril and Jethro, a foster boy were a nightmare when I left them, I solved Cyril by taking him with me as much as I could, obviously I couldn't take him everywhere. Luckily he was settle down and sleep when left in the car so I would make sure there was trees to park under if the sun was out even in the winter. Cyril is fine to be left now.

With Jethro leaving him in the car also caused him to destroy it, £400 for new seatbelts in the back so couldn't take him in the car. I used to give him cardboard boxes to destroy and they made a big difference, didn't get away with it all the time but usually if it was longer than an couple of hours. I had to hospital for treatment which meant I would have to leave my dogs for 6 to 8 hours, I was worried about leaving them this long but with Jethro it was impossible so he went to another foster home.

When I got home I was so pleased with my dogs, Cyril had weed and pooed but the girls hadn't, they were all fine and nothing was destroyed.

How was Remus when he slept in your bedroom? Was he better being left during the day?
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Florence
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16-09-2013, 11:10 AM
I'm wondering, how do you leave the house? I mean, what is your ritual, is it hectic? Or does it vary?
I realised that I need to leave the house in a certain way for Ella to be ok. If I am calm and look like I hate leaving (when I'm going to work) she's fine. She'll settle on the bed or sofa while I potter around getting my stuff together. I make sure I don't move too fast, nothing exciting is happening and I've not just been for a walk. After a walk I like to let her settle at least 30mins before I leave, that way she's calmed down and starting to doze off.
If I or Shane (or both of us) leave in this way, she is absolutely fine. She won't even look up anymore, she knows we're going to work and we'll be back.

If on the other hand we're going out or if we have to leave in a hurry, she's really bad at being left. This happens if we're listening to music getting ready to go out, if we're excited, if she's just played with us or if anything else exciting happens. She then either thinks she's missing out or that we're going to leave her for a looooong time and never ever come back :S

So I'm wondering, if sometimes Remus is fine being left and sometimes he panicks, could it be triggered by the excitement of you leaving? I imagine getting two children ready for school can be quite a task with lots of noise and running around (at least this is how it was when my mum got us ready for school lol). This might get him excited and if he doesn't have time to calm down before you leave, he's then left in a state of arousal which can turn into anxiety.
Also, as I said, I'd never leave my dog just after coming back from a walk. She's just been running around, her adrenalin is pumping, she's just had an exciting time! If I left her then, she'd be too wired to settle on her own. I then usually just sit down reading something, playing on my computer or trying to get ready in a way that looks like I'm going to work lol.

Anyway, just my thoughts cos that's what I found out works with Ella!
I hope you find a way to work it out with your special case
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Lacey10
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16-09-2013, 11:39 AM
Thankyou for explaining
I have a question:
I get that you have two small children and an OH that has to get up early for work.I get that you are a busy mum who needs an undisturbed nights rest.I can see how Taking Remus upstairs would be a quick fix and I'm sure you realise it will result in a long term commitment,once started it'll be very hard to reverse if need be.
My question is do you as a couple want Remus sleeping in your room or is it a case of feeling cornered into it?
Thing is although he's had a set back he has also proved that he is capable of being downstairs the majority of the time.I think giving in now will just be undoing all your hard work so far.What if after a few nights of Remus being in your room,Tonks decides she's not having it and starts playing up too?It could happen and then you'll be back to square one.Its bound to be a pain but I really feel persevence will pay off in this case.
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Tang
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16-09-2013, 11:57 AM
Regarding getting him used to being left before being taken out I've no advice at all. Perhaps one day it will just daawn on him that you are going without him so his playing up is to no avail?

Wouldn't hold your breath though. I've hoped for more than 3yrs Bella will stop behaving like a demented banshee in the car every time it looks as if I am going to slow down or stop.

But the only dogs I've ever owned not allowed upstairs or on the bed was my GSDs - purely on account of their SIZE! And I still remember the howling and crying until it dawned on them that they were not coming up with me!

All the others have slept in my room. Sometimes compromises have to be made for the good of the whole family. I must say in your situation I'd probably opt for letting the dog come upstairs just so everyone got a night's sleep.

When my boys were young they went to bed around 6.30 or 7pm as babies. I was VERY strict on bedtime until they were much older. However when my daughter came along 11yrs later, if I'd put her to bed that early she would never ever have seen her dad as he didn't get home from work until after 7.30pm every night. So she went to bed a lot later than the boys did at her age. Also my boys were teenagers and she was living in a much noisier, busier and more hectic house by then than they did at her age! Horses for courses.
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catrinsparkles
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16-09-2013, 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by Tangutica View Post
Catrin the only thing that stands out to me is that you need him to be OK to be left BEFORE you take him out at all. I've never had a dog that I've had to do that with and I'd hate to think what they'd be like if I did. I always take the dog out before leaving it alone. Even if only round the block. Then put it back in and leave right away.

If I'm going to be leaving for any length of time I wouldn't do it unless they'd had a good walk first. If for no other reason than I'd be worried they'd be barking and howling while I was gone! Them not understanding why they didn't come with me.

All my dogs have quickly grasped that if they've just been out with me they are not coming with me if I go out again soon after we return.

I'm seeing it from the dog's point - looking forward to seeing you all at the start of the day and then - you all poodle off and leave him!
It's interesting because we've always dogs who would accept just being left for an hour pre walk and then longer post walk. I suppose it has been different with Tonks because I had her from tiny so could be the one to introduce her to a crate and being left and, as I worked from home, I was able to build it up very methodically. But now I'm working things round two little ones.

One thing that has occurred to me today is that maybe Tonks is more unsettled when I'm not there at the moment as she can't have any exercise...so maybe she is wondering round...but then today she was in the crate...I wonder if she was whining, or doing her very special staffie suppressed screen/yelp.
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
Both Cyril and Jethro, a foster boy were a nightmare when I left them, I solved Cyril by taking him with me as much as I could, obviously I couldn't take him everywhere. Luckily he was settle down and sleep when left in the car so I would make sure there was trees to park under if the sun was out even in the winter. Cyril is fine to be left now.

With Jethro leaving him in the car also caused him to destroy it, £400 for new seatbelts in the back so couldn't take him in the car. I used to give him cardboard boxes to destroy and they made a big difference, didn't get away with it all the time but usually if it was longer than an couple of hours. I had to hospital for treatment which meant I would have to leave my dogs for 6 to 8 hours, I was worried about leaving them this long but with Jethro it was impossible so he went to another foster home.

When I got home I was so pleased with my dogs, Cyril had weed and pooed but the girls hadn't, they were all fine and nothing was destroyed.

How was Remus when he slept in your bedroom? Was he better being left during the day?
Thank goodness Remus has only done minimal damage to things, as we rent our house! When he is in our bedroom he is fine, and he was better at being left in the mornings..maybe it was because he had had enough company through the night and cuddles in the morning, I don't know. How long do I have to leave between courses of rescue rememdy? I remember I can't use it for more than 28 days in a row.

Originally Posted by Florence View Post
I'm wondering, how do you leave the house? I mean, what is your ritual, is it hectic? Or does it vary?
I realised that I need to leave the house in a certain way for Ella to be ok. If I am calm and look like I hate leaving (when I'm going to work) she's fine. She'll settle on the bed or sofa while I potter around getting my stuff together. I make sure I don't move too fast, nothing exciting is happening and I've not just been for a walk. After a walk I like to let her settle at least 30mins before I leave, that way she's calmed down and starting to doze off.
If I or Shane (or both of us) leave in this way, she is absolutely fine. She won't even look up anymore, she knows we're going to work and we'll be back.

If on the other hand we're going out or if we have to leave in a hurry, she's really bad at being left. This happens if we're listening to music getting ready to go out, if we're excited, if she's just played with us or if anything else exciting happens. She then either thinks she's missing out or that we're going to leave her for a looooong time and never ever come back :S

So I'm wondering, if sometimes Remus is fine being left and sometimes he panicks, could it be triggered by the excitement of you leaving? I imagine getting two children ready for school can be quite a task with lots of noise and running around (at least this is how it was when my mum got us ready for school lol). This might get him excited and if he doesn't have time to calm down before you leave, he's then left in a state of arousal which can turn into anxiety.
Also, as I said, I'd never leave my dog just after coming back from a walk. She's just been running around, her adrenalin is pumping, she's just had an exciting time! If I left her then, she'd be too wired to settle on her own. I then usually just sit down reading something, playing on my computer or trying to get ready in a way that looks like I'm going to work lol.

Anyway, just my thoughts cos that's what I found out works with Ella!
I hope you find a way to work it out with your special case
You guessed it..it's pretty hectic when we leave! Not lots of shouting but lots of noise from the children and going back and forth because we've forgotten things ..BUT its always been like that and he's ok sometimes and not ok sometimes.

Both mine are like yours, I couldn't walk them and then dump them home and go out straight away. Actually Remus probably would cope with that but Tonks' adrenaline levels would mean she'd be charging around. She needs ten minutes or so for it to disperse. That's staffies for you!
Originally Posted by Eileen Duffy View Post
Thankyou for explaining
I have a question:
I get that you have two small children and an OH that has to get up early for work.I get that you are a busy mum who needs an undisturbed nights rest.I can see how Taking Remus upstairs would be a quick fix and I'm sure you realise it will result in a long term commitment,once started it'll be very hard to reverse if need be.
My question is do you as a couple want Remus sleeping in your room or is it a case of feeling cornered into it?
Thing is although he's had a set back he has also proved that he is capable of being downstairs the majority of the time.I think giving in now will just be undoing all your hard work so far.What if after a few nights of Remus being in your room,Tonks decides she's not having it and starts playing up too?It could happen and then you'll be back to square one.Its bound to be a pain but I really feel persevence will pay off in this case.
Well Paul would rather he was in ten bedroom because then he wouldn't have to do anything with him in the morning. Tonks is very used to Paul getting up and ignoring him and she doesn't even bother to get out of bed now. The only reason we moved him down was because I was getting disturbed by him rolling over in the night and banging his big long legs on the cupboard doors next to where his bed is....but that could be solved by some big cushions or a duvet there.
I'm certain Tonks wouldn't be affected by moving. Remus as she is very settled and would probably love to have his crate to herself rather than them both trying to get in together. She's never been allowed in the bedroom, or upstairs, because of her dust allergy.
Originally Posted by Tangutica View Post
Regarding getting him used to being left before being taken out I've no advice at all. Perhaps one day it will just daawn on him that you are going without him so his playing up is to no avail?

Wouldn't hold your breath though. I've hoped for more than 3yrs Bella will stop behaving like a demented banshee in the car every time it looks as if I am going to slow down or stop.

But the only dogs I've ever owned not allowed upstairs or on the bed was my GSDs - purely on account of their SIZE! And I still remember the howling and crying until it dawned on them that they were not coming up with me!

All the others have slept in my room. Sometimes compromises have to be made for the good of the whole family. I must say in your situation I'd probably opt for letting the dog come upstairs just so everyone got a night's sleep.

When my boys were young they went to bed around 6.30 or 7pm as babies. I was VERY strict on bedtime until they were much older. However when my daughter came along 11yrs later, if I'd put her to bed that early she would never ever have seen her dad as he didn't get home from work until after 7.30pm every night. So she went to bed a lot later than the boys did at her age. Also my boys were teenagers and she was living in a much noisier, busier and more hectic house by then than they did at her age! Horses for courses.
Yes I think it's looking like he'll come back upstairs. It's no point fighting it if there's no issue with him being upstairs really is there. He settled really well to being upstairs at night and very quickly learned not to bother following me if I have to get up to the girls in the night.

This afternoon I left him for almost two hours in the kitchen with Tonks, no problem at all...but then he'd had a big walk running around with our collie client.

I'll try the kong in the morning and see how it goes, walking him in the morning really isn't an option for us it takes quite a bit of organising to get my almost 3 and 4 year old out of the house and I'm certain it would result in us being late for school and the girls being even more tired for preschool and school...which I don't want either. I'm sure he will get there in the end....it's the erraticness that is so frustrating. The steps forward and one step back!
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Malka
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16-09-2013, 05:03 PM
Catrin, if Remus sleeping upstairs is not too unsettling for you, Paul or the girls, and Tonks is happy staying downstairs, then maybe you will just have to accept that and maybe, maybe, it will make him feel more settled when you have to go out and leave him.

I do not think that by having him upstairs with you at night is "giving in" as such, more that it is giving Remus the security he needs.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. (((hugs))) xx
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catrinsparkles
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16-09-2013, 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by Malka View Post
Catrin, if Remus sleeping upstairs is not too unsettling for you, Paul or the girls, and Tonks is happy staying downstairs, then maybe you will just have to accept that and maybe, maybe, it will make him feel more settled when you have to go out and leave him.

I do not think that by having him upstairs with you at night is "giving in" as such, more that it is giving Remus the security he needs.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. (((hugs))) xx
Thank you Malka... I'm currently clearing the space in the bedroom where his bed was previously. : ) Carys fell asleep after preschool and Merryn was asleep by 6, even though she is only at school until just after lunch at the moment it is really tiring her out and they don't need Remus disturbing them in the early hours.
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Pookin
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16-09-2013, 08:20 PM
My lurcher was quite a nightmare at times with wrecking the house while we were out, I ended up just taking I'm with me pretty much everywhere for about a year and half. It was a pig and he was quite a handful in a lot of ways.
I have no advice for you, you know all the ways you could get him to accept being downstairs but the realities of family life aren't making those a realistic choice right now.
I feel for you though because I know what it is like to live with a tyrannical diva-like lurcher.

My lurcher slept in the bedroom, he had no interest in human beings at all so he was in with us in the hope that it would foster some sort of bond. The things we do for dogs?!

With him wrecking the house while you are out is it an option to have a pair of kennels for him and Tonks outside? I often get a bit stressed worrying about if the dogs damage the house because we rent and toy with the idea of some kennels outdoors. Bt hen again because I rent it seems like a lot to do if we move and would be a right pain to take them with us, depends on how long you intend to stay in a place I guess.

Fingers crossed Remus settles dwn soon.
(Vic is five and has been a fuss pot all weekend, some sight hounds just need a lot of pandering he tells me)
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