A few questions before I make a decision...

Following my last 2 posts I am concidering a companion for my male GSD and myself I would have concidered a rescue but my boy can be dominant and also I take my dog to work so I need the pup to be socialised from an early age to other animals etc, which many rescues are not from my experience.
I want another GSD ideally and have been looking at breeders and have spoken to a few who either have litters or have upcoming litters. I did ideally want a purebred as I wanted one with good hip scores etc. I am looking at about £600-£700 for a decently bred GSD.

I am a VN and deal alot with rescues and it so happens that we have had a litter of abandoned GSD type pups handed in by the RSPCA. They are pretty thin and covered in fleas/ticks but definatley look like shepherds or a GSD mixes. All are friendly and mum is lovely and looks pure GSD although we cant be sure, and are ready in about 4 weeks I would say.

Now I am in a quandry over what to do! Part of me wants to minimise the risk of any problems and go down the well bred route but as a VN we do like to take the sorry cases and these certainly fit the bill
I am also debating it as I paid alot for my current GSD but he has hip problems so is it not just luck of the draw and the breeders puppies have a huge waiting list for them unlike the abandoned ones?


Finally, which ever pup I get will come to work with me and thus needs to be crate trained. Which is the best way to do this exactly?
How long can any dog be crated for? My current one sleeps on the staff room sofa but he is old and I dont want him jumped on all day...
Where can I get advice on socilising and training? My current GSD had problems in his younger years due to my own stupidity and not socialising him enough and I dont want to make the same mistake twice, I want this next one to be a good citizen

Well to answer one of your questions, my 6 year old male GSD has been coming to work with me since he was 7 weeks old, he stayed in the car and I went out every couple of hours to toilet him, train him and feed him.

He is completely bomb proof with people and dogs.

To answer another question re socialisation:

Puppy Socialisation/Habituation

Socialisation/habituation is most critical for dogs in the first 16 weeks of life. There is a large genetic component in socialisation/habituation training and it is important to realise that nurture cannot always overcome nature. Hence breeding from sound stock is vital! You cannot make a first class product out of third class materials.

Ray and Lorna Coppinger in the book “Dogs – A Startling New Understanding of Canine Origin, Behaviour, and Evolution” discuss how 80% of a dog’s brain is fully formed by 4 months of age; from 4 months to a year the remaining 20% of the brain develops. As most of a dog’s brain growth occurs from 4 weeks to 4 months this is the critical window of opportunity, when socialisation/habituation will make the biggest difference.

At birth a puppy has essentially all the brain cells it is ever going to have during its whole life time. Of all the brain cells present at birth, a huge number are not connected or wired together. What takes place during puppy development is the wiring pattern of the nerve cells. (Coppinger, 2001)

Once the brain’s growth stops, it becomes far more challenging to “alter the wiring”.

It is essential that the dog is exposed to new stimuli on a voluntary basis and not forced to interact with beings or objects s/he is afraid of.

Proper socialisation is force free and completely voluntary on the dog’s part.

Socialisation/habituation is much more than just exposing your dog to your family and dogs and maybe a few neighbours/friends; this is a good start but not nearly enough for most puppies. Socialisation/habituation is taking the puppy everywhere you go exposing it to hundreds of people young and old alike and all kinds of dogs. This socialisation/habituation will need to continue throughout most of the dog’s life. An under-socialised dog is more likely to bite and/or become stressed in unfamiliar situations.

By the time your puppy is 16 weeks old it should have:

Experienced many daily different surfaces: wood, woodchips, carpet, tile, cement, lino, grass, mud, puddles, gravel, leaves, stubble, sand, uneven surfaces, on a table, on a chair, etc......

Played with many different objects: fuzzy toys, balls, hard toys, funny sounding toys, wooden/paper/metal/cardboard/rubber items; items which have uneven weight distribution eg hammers, plastic bottles containing some water, things that have odd textures such as brushes etc

Experienced many different locations: garden, other people’s homes, school, lake, beach, river, boat, lift, car, garage, utility room, kennel, train, bus, vets (just to visit, lots of treats, no vaccinations), grooming salon (just to visit), etc...
.
Met and played with many new people (outside of family): include children, adults, people with wheelchairs/walkers/sticks/crutches, hats, sunglasses, beards etc…
.
Been exposed to many different noises garage door opening, doorbell, children playing, babies screaming, lorries, motorcycles, washing machine, shopping trolleys, boats, clapping, loud singing, pan dropping, whistles, lawnmowers, vacuum cleaners etc…

Been exposed to many fast moving objects: skateboards, roller-skates, bicycles, cars, people running, scooters, children running, squirrels, cats, horses, cows, sheep etc…

Experienced many different challenges: climb on, in, off and around a box, go through a cardboard tunnel, climb up and down steps, climb over obstacles, play hide & seek, go in and out a doorway with a step up or down, exposed to automatic doors, umbrella, balloons, walk on a wobbly table (plank of wood with a small rock underneath), jump over a broom, climb over a log, bathtub, kissing gates, stiles.

Been handled by owner (& family) many times a week: hold under arm (like a football), hold to chest, hold on floor near owner, hold in-between owner’s legs, hold head, look in ears, mouth, in-between toes, hold and take temperature, hold like a baby, trim toe nails, hold in lap, hold upside down etc…

Eaten out of many different containers/surfaces: plastic/metal/ceramic bowls, paper plates, Kong, Treatball, Bustercube, spoon fed, hand fed, paper bag, grass, floor etc......

Eaten in many different locations: garden, crate, kitchen, utility room, bathroom, friend’s house, car, park, bathtub, up high (on work bench), under umbrella, etc....

Played with many different puppies (or safe adult dogs) as much as possible. This means dogs of different breeds, ages and should not be restricted to those that live in the family home. Dogs can and do become “breedist” and they need to learn how to read dogs that are different.

Been left alone safely, away from family & other animals (5-45 minutes) many times a week.

Experienced a lead and collar many different times in lots different locations.

The above is important for all dogs, but it is crucial if you want your dog to compete at a high level in most disciplines. This is because if the dog is not worrying about its environment etc it can concentrate on the task(s) at hand.

The more relaxed your dog is about the world the better quality of life you will both enjoy as you will be able to take it anywhere and everywhere with complete confidence.

The above programme may appear to be somewhat rigorous however the more you put into a dog at the “front end of its life” the less you will need to repair later on.

Why are so many dogs poorly socialised?

Unfortunately this comes down to both lack of knowledge and experience in new owners and vets who insist that it is not safe to take dogs out and about until they have had their second inoculation. This means that the window of opportunity is vastly reduced if owners follow this advice. Now, everyone must make decisions based on their own particular circumstances, environment and professional advice; however I will tell you what I do with my dogs.

They are put on the ground at 7 weeks ie from the day I have them and I prefer to wait for two weeks until they are vaccinated because I believe their system is under sufficient stress with the removal from the nest and change of home. More dogs are rehomed/destroyed due to behaviour problems than die of disease and I believe that the risks of contracting a disease is lower than the risks of potential behaviour problems in the future.

Please note I am not advising you to do the same! This would be irresponsible all owners should follow their breeder’s and vet’s advice first.

Remember, “As you sow, so shall you reap!”

Whatever pup you get, and from whatever source, will have his own challenges and strengths. The most difficult bitch I`ve ever owned I bought from a breeder as a youngster - there are no guarantees.
If you are willing to put in the work, go for it. If not, don`t.

I personally wouldn't get a German Shepard, to much of a risk of bad hips.....Is this thanks to the showing brigade?
Look at the Belgian shepherd.

em, so do labs?

I used to do that too but you can also have a crate at work if permitted?

Agree with C&D. Theres more to a dog than 'well bred'. What do you consider well bred? Do you want a drivey dog or a laid back character....do you realise that no matter how much hip scoring has been done they can still have bad hips, or be a VWD's affected...basically I think you should do your research THEN weight up if you want the crossbreed or a pedigree.

Really?

And this opinion is based on what statistics?

Do you have the stats on how many GSD/BSD are bred each year, how many of those are hip scored, and how many are above/below the BMS.

Only with this information will you be able to work out percentage wise if one breed is better than the other.

BSD have to be eye tested, hip scored like GSD plus they also have epilepsy, like the GSD I could go on.

Temperament problems are also an issue in both breeds.

To evaluate risk you need to know the numbers.

From a BSD and GSD fan!

And of course labradors have hip problems not to mention the amount of eye problems too! I wonder if this was a result of the showing brigade?

Is that right, do you have statistics to back that statement up!

Thanks everyone, smokeybear that made for interesting reading thanks!!

I have researched alot about hips but I have read conflicting things, obviously there is a risk of hips with all dogs? I have spoken to alot of the vets I work with most are in favour of the cross breed pup over the pure bred?

Either way I shall not be breeding the dog so it dosent really matter to me. Temprement is more important.
I would like a laid back dog but one who will enjoy decent walks and spend all day on our farm. I also spend alot of time mucking out horses etc late at night and like the protection aspect of a larger dog.

I have looked at other breeds but am always drawn back to the GSD, maybe it is because my current dog is the ideal dog for me! If I could clone him i would!