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nickyboy
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17-07-2008, 08:56 AM
Originally Posted by Colin View Post
Sorry to say but who cares about the crew of the General Belgrano, how many lives could this country of lost if it wasn't sunk.

Surely the death of those crewman should fall upon the Argentine military regime that ordered the invasion of the Falklands.
not allowed to rep you again but well said that man
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alexandra
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17-07-2008, 09:27 AM
personally i was a baby when she was in but alot of what she did i agree with...

now those that say she was evil.....erm.what about blair????
what manner of crap has he dealt the country!
its bad enough he has screwed so many over but erm....being a brown noser to bush's war on terror??????

scuse me but have they ACTUALLY found and WMDs?? or just major oil pipelines??

how many of our brave men and women out there are fighting for it for no reason other than greed of our leaders?

right rant over...

phew...

alex
xxx
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nickyboy
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17-07-2008, 09:53 AM
What strikes me with a lot of Thatchers critics is they never come up with alternatives or push other people forward - so when they were hating Thatcher who was their alternatives Callahan - the man who actually first privaitised industries when he sold off a chunk of BP?

Foot ? - a dinosaur who stood by everything that had brought the country to within breaking point before Mrs T reformed it?

Kinnock ? - a bumbling idiot who never knew where to hang his hat and then went about his business milking the Brussels gravy train when Blair came along?

Blair - the biggest liar, swindler and self pocket liner the countries ever seen - whos agenda has always been to go down in history, a jumped up hollow sychophant who's only decent legacy was taking an economy that was laid on a plate, seeing peoples resulting affluence and then set about robbing them blind of every hard earned penny - who has created a bigger gulf between the have and have nots than any conservative govt in recent history? Who cut his teeth slaggig off Thatcherism and nuclear weapons and conservative sleaze, then went on to embrace the nuclear argument, hail thatcherism, promote privatisation and nurture a corrupt govt oozing more sleaze than anything thatcher or major did - selling the countries gold reserves at the dead ar3e low - when it wasnt losing money, unlike a bunch of mines that were - and why ? to raise cash

are these the alternatives all these anti thatcher people hail ?

They remind me of all the activist comedians of the 80's those pillocks like Ben Elton who made a living out of pulling the conservatives apart until he got to fat and too rich to care and people didnt buy his champagne socialist 'do as i say not as i do' act - wheres his act on blair - he aint got one because he would look like the hypocritical idiot he and the like of jeremy hardy and theirr ilk are.

So for those that dislike her an alternative in either policy or person would be refreshing to hear for that time and that back drop in our countries history??
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Colin
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17-07-2008, 10:18 AM
Originally Posted by nickyboy View Post
What strikes me with a lot of Thatchers critics is they never come up with alternatives or push other people forward - so when they were hating Thatcher who was their alternatives Callahan - the man who actually first privaitised industries when he sold off a chunk of BP?

Foot ? - a dinosaur who stood by everything that had brought the country to within breaking point before Mrs T reformed it?

Kinnock ? - a bumbling idiot who never knew where to hang his hat and then went about his business milking the Brussels gravy train when Blair came along?

Blair - the biggest liar, swindler and self pocket liner the countries ever seen - whos agenda has always been to go down in history, a jumped up hollow sychophant who's only decent legacy was taking an economy that was laid on a plate, seeing peoples resulting affluence and then set about robbing them blind of every hard earned penny - who has created a bigger gulf between the have and have nots than any conservative govt in recent history? Who cut his teeth slaggig off Thatcherism and nuclear weapons and conservative sleaze, then went on to embrace the nuclear argument, hail thatcherism, promote privatisation and nurture a corrupt govt oozing more sleaze than anything thatcher or major did - selling the countries gold reserves at the dead ar3e low - when it wasnt losing money, unlike a bunch of mines that were - and why ? to raise cash

are these the alternatives all these anti thatcher people hail ?

They remind me of all the activist comedians of the 80's those pillocks like Ben Elton who made a living out of pulling the conservatives apart until he got to fat and too rich to care and people didnt buy his champagne socialist 'do as i say not as i do' act - wheres his act on blair - he aint got one because he would look like the hypocritical idiot he and the like of jeremy hardy and theirr ilk are.

So for those that dislike her an alternative in either policy or person would be refreshing to hear for that time and that back drop in our countries history??
That an excellent post but I'm not not allowed to rep you again.
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Krusewalker
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17-07-2008, 10:30 AM
Originally Posted by nickyboy View Post
Tony Blair formulated many of the same arguments as you - then did turn arounds on half of them from privatisation to nuclear defense .
Very true. but i wonder how you can then bemoan this present socialist gov in an earlier post? Surely tahts a contradiction?
there is nothing socialist about New Labour...Blair or Brown.
Blair particulalry was a Tory with Thatcherite tendancies.
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nickyboy
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17-07-2008, 11:10 AM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
Very true. but i wonder how you can then bemoan this present socialist gov in an earlier post? Surely tahts a contradiction?
there is nothing socialist about New Labour...Blair or Brown.
Blair particulalry was a Tory with Thatcherite tendancies.
im actually bemoaning their contradictions how they comdemned the thatcherite way then adopted the practises - that socialism is an ideology that really doesnt work too well in practise and socialists are IMO people with nothing to manage and who dont want to make decisions once it dawns on them how the real world works. They are socialists by their own labelling and this was how they sold themselves to the country and the traditional labour voter and the disillusioned electorate as well as the prmise of being whiter than white - i can totally appreciate the irnony of calling these people socialists, but many of their policies get lost in the old socialist necessity of tax tax tax - except they are taxing normally the very people they hoodwink into voting them in to reduce the burden.

Blairs only positive legacy will be Northern Ireland in my belief - yet again another initiative conceived under a previous govt and party - but had he inherited a country on a downward slope like Thatcher did instead of one in the middle o the biggest boom in modern history - he would have folded - in the same way as he held on to his place until it was clear new labour were well and truly found out and he cashed in his disclaimer, dumped it on someone who really shouldnt be there and like a rat jumped ship.

This 'socialist' government has tried to be all things to all men at all times and ended up rogering pretty much everyone except the undeserving, the lazy and the non brits - and they really only had to steer a ship chugging along nicely on economic prosperity - not pull a country out o a union induced gutter like Mrs T did

Give her the State Funeral she deserves and hopefully even her critics will have the good grace to just hope we get someone half the Man she was to give this country direction again before its too late.
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Helena54
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17-07-2008, 11:25 AM
Originally Posted by nickyboy View Post
im actually bemoaning their contradictions how they comdemned the thatcherite way then adopted the practises - that socialism is an ideology that really doesnt work too well in practise and socialists are IMO people with nothing to manage and who dont want to make decisions once it dawns on them how the real world works. They are socialists by their own labelling and this was how they sold themselves to the country and the traditional labour voter and the disillusioned electorate as well as the prmise of being whiter than white - i can totally appreciate the irnony of calling these people socialists, but many of their policies get lost in the old socialist necessity of tax tax tax - except they are taxing normally the very people they hoodwink into voting them in to reduce the burden.

Blairs only positive legacy will be Northern Ireland in my belief - yet again another initiative conceived under a previous govt and party - but had he inherited a country on a downward slope like Thatcher did instead of one in the middle o the biggest boom in modern history - he would have folded - in the same way as he held on to his place until it was clear new labour were well and truly found out and he cashed in his disclaimer, dumped it on someone who really shouldnt be there and like a rat jumped ship.

This 'socialist' government has tried to be all things to all men at all times and ended up rogering pretty much everyone except the undeserving, the lazy and the non brits - and they really only had to steer a ship chugging along nicely on economic prosperity - not pull a country out o a union induced gutter like Mrs T did

Give her the State Funeral she deserves and hopefully even her critics will have the good grace to just hope we get someone half the Man she was to give this country direction again before its too late.
You called??????!!!!!

She had a tough policy, she didn't suffer fools, and most of all, she got on with the job - I'm a fan can yer tell!
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nickyboy
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17-07-2008, 11:43 AM
Originally Posted by Helena54 View Post
You called??????!!!!!

She had a tough policy, she didn't suffer fools, and most of all, she got on with the job - I'm a fan can yer tell!
hahaha I had my suspicions

she really is the onl really high profile figure in this country I am in awe of...
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Helena54
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17-07-2008, 12:28 PM
The thing I liked most about her, was how she called their bluff, the unions who were holding the country to ransome as they had done for sooooo many generations. She wanted everyone to have the chance of making a good life for themselves by offering them their council housing and most sensible peops jumped at the chance of getting on the housing ladder as Colin has stated.

Oh to be in her position if you owned a large consortium and all your workers wanted to walk out coz they weren't happy with their sarnies in the canteen or something just as menial, and I'd just love to say, ok go ahead then, I'll get some peops in who DO want your jobs - perfect, and I'd DO It too! Then watch them crying in their tea when they're out of work and have to live on a pittance I'd hand out as benefit. Things should be like they were once before, where you valued your job, you were grateful for it, you were happy when you got your weekly wage packet, and happy with your lot! Everyone's too darn greedy in this day and age, they want more, more more That's probably why we've ended up in the state we're in, too many greedy b*stards taking off the cream and too many work shirkers who want paying for slacking around in work, constantly moaning about their woe's and jumping at the chance to strike for more! She had b*lls that woman, she stood up to everyone, hence her name the Iron Lady, I salute her!
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Krusewalker
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17-07-2008, 12:28 PM
Originally Posted by nickyboy View Post
im actually bemoaning their contradictions how they comdemned the thatcherite way then adopted the practises - that socialism is an ideology that really doesnt work too well in practise and socialists are IMO people with nothing to manage and who dont want to make decisions once it dawns on them how the real world works. They are socialists by their own labelling and this was how they sold themselves to the country and the traditional labour voter and the disillusioned electorate as well as the prmise of being whiter than white - i can totally appreciate the irnony of calling these people socialists, but many of their policies get lost in the old socialist necessity of tax tax tax - except they are taxing normally the very people they hoodwink into voting them in to reduce the burden.

Blairs only positive legacy will be Northern Ireland in my belief - yet again another initiative conceived under a previous govt and party - but had he inherited a country on a downward slope like Thatcher did instead of one in the middle o the biggest boom in modern history - he would have folded - in the same way as he held on to his place until it was clear new labour were well and truly found out and he cashed in his disclaimer, dumped it on someone who really shouldnt be there and like a rat jumped ship.

This 'socialist' government has tried to be all things to all men at all times and ended up rogering pretty much everyone except the undeserving, the lazy and the non brits - and they really only had to steer a ship chugging along nicely on economic prosperity - not pull a country out o a union induced gutter like Mrs T did

Give her the State Funeral she deserves and hopefully even her critics will have the good grace to just hope we get someone half the Man she was to give this country direction again before its too late.

Fair points. Except Blair, Mandelson and Brown created New Labour. They made a point of rejecting the label socialist from the off. At the time Labour's real socialists condemned them as Tories. Before he became Prime Minsister, Blair, as leade rof the Labour Party, had the conference remove the clause (88?) commiting the party to State ownership of utilities etc. That was considered his first symbolic act in a following series of steps of moving Labour away from Socialism. Blair and Clinton and Schroeder formed a 'third way' ideology and held conferences under that banner.
A lot of the idelogy originated from the 1980's Rogernomic Labour Party Gov of David Lange in NZ (he later rejected this, he said his gov was hijacked).
During his first election, Blair did slam Thatcher (although he praised her a few years later as a fellow reformer), but he definitely didnt sell himself and his party to the nation as Socialists.
Labour still remain right of centre on socio-economic tax and spend grounds, (as are now the Liberals under Clegg)which is still more right wing to the old Heathite 1970's conservative paternalism (he ran state industries).
And right of Thatcher when it comes to authoritarianism.
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