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BangKaew
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12-08-2011, 09:22 AM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post

I see you have avoided my original question as you cannot in actual fact give me a breakdown of where the money comes from.

Or, if you could, it would be patently obvious the majority of money that the government obtains is not from corporations, that information is freely available on may websites. Yes they get tax from both corporations and personal but there are far bigger accruals from other levies.
Well where are your facts? Its blatantly obvious that the government needs the City tax revenue and that is largely corporations. None of Today's politicians are going to piss off the city and the general public does not like that

I never said I had a solution, I am not that arrogant or stupid to believe that I have all or indeed any of the answers, I commented on the ignorance and bigotry included in some of the threads.
You not arrogant? You are joking right?
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Jackie
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12-08-2011, 09:32 AM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post


I never said I had a solution, I am not that arrogant or stupid to believe that I have all or indeed any of the answers, I commented on the ignorance and bigotry included in some of the threads.

I am entitled to do that as that is my opinion


No one has asked you to find a solution, but one would expect "ideas" (which is all this thread is about) to come from someone who is so intent on calling everyone else a bigot for voicing theirs.........after all as you say, you are entitled to an opinion, shame you dont share it , instead of berating others all the time for theirs


You can assume all your like, that is your prerogative. My comment was specific and did not encompass YOUR agenda.

Which is?

I am not buried in legislation at all I live in the REAL world, that is how I KNOW the facts.
Of COURSE there are poor employers, illegal workers etc, just as there are good and poor parents, children, dog owners etc.
But the FACTS are the rules are the same for everyone.
And as for getting paid in cash, ANYONE is allowed to be paid in cash, whether you are an immigrant or not

As long as one pays their taxes ofcause.

People can spend their money how they wish, our amenities are available to all (or do you think we should discriminate and if so how) and those are PAID for by EVERYONE through taxes including Council Tax!

My point exactly, pay your taxes!!



As for putting nothing back, hmmm, do they not have to pay the same bills as the rest of us what EXACTLY do they NOT pay for or put back into the local economy?

Do they not have to eat, pay for fuel, utilities, clothes etc etc?????????????????
Buying a few groceries and paying rent does not add up to paying a lot back into society.

Maybe instead of criticizing others for their opinions, you might give us the benefit of your vast experience in all things that matter, and throw a few ideas in yourself. would be very interesting to hear it from the horses mouth , so to speak.

After all , none of us "who are arrogant and stupid" have the answers, maybe you have!
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scorpio
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12-08-2011, 10:36 AM
Well it does seem that a lot of us have similar ideas for putting the country back on it's feet...rightly or wrongly and sometimes apparently misinformed..it's been very interesting reading so far

Please keep coming up with ideas and reasons fior those ideas, don't be put off incase someone argues against your opinions...we can't all know everything about everything and I have certainly found out some information that I wasn't aware of previously.

Some people are obviously very passionate about some things whereas others see them as a blight in our system, thats life I suppose.

Even having read the arguments and discussions I haven't changed my main opinion although there have certainly been some better suggestions than I put forward.
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Lynn
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12-08-2011, 11:29 AM
I am reading a book at the moment it is the follow up to Angelas Ashes. Her brother Frank now in America and he has been drafted into the amy and a colleague of his is saying he doesn't give two cents for isms because people with isms cause all the trouble in the world and you may have noticed there is no ism in democracy. It got him confined to barracks for 6 weeks.
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ClaireandDaisy
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12-08-2011, 11:54 AM
I think there is a danger of over-reacting. Riots are not that unusual. Anyone remember Toxteth, Brixton, Bristol etc etc?
Mobs behave badly. It`s the nature of the beast.
I do think a lot of work needs to be done on parenting, education and finding work opportunities / training for young people - but I thought that before the riots.
I think that perhaps these riots will have actually done some good in an odd way. In that Police and social service cuts wil be looked at again, and hopefully some people will have observed the appalled reaction of the majority.
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scorpio
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12-08-2011, 12:03 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
I think there is a danger of over-reacting. Riots are not that unusual. Anyone remember Toxteth, Brixton, Bristol etc etc?
Mobs behave badly. It`s the nature of the beast.
I do think a lot of work needs to be done on parenting, education and finding work opportunities / training for young people - but I thought that before the riots.
I think that perhaps these riots will have actually done some good in an odd way. In that Police and social service cuts wil be looked at again, and hopefully some people will have observed the appalled reaction of the majority.
I agree Claire...the police cuts were something I was concerned about, if it means that those cuts they were going to make are reviewed, and that something can be done with regards to the parenting/training etc., then I suppose there will be some good come of it all.
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Helena54
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12-08-2011, 12:27 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
Buying a few groceries and paying rent does not add up to paying a lot back into society.

Maybe instead of criticizing others for their opinions, you might give us the benefit of your vast experience in all things that matter, and throw a few ideas in yourself. would be very interesting to hear it from the horses mouth , so to speak.

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]That's her forte don'tcha know Jackie, that's why she's on my ignore! This is where she gets her kicks, not from the original post, not her style![/FONT]

After all , none of us "who are arrogant and stupid" have the answers, maybe you have!
Pot.....kettle

Well said there!

Claire and Sheree: If you watched the debate in parliament yesterday, you will have seen that the government are NOT going to back down on the police cuts. Time and time again the subject was brought up by the labour party and time and time again DC said that there would be NO cutbacks to the front line, but the police actually AGREE that they can make cuts in the back offices, which will cover the 6% reduction over 4 years, without reducing the police force that protects the country.

Mind you, that's a politician speaking there.....

That's a laugh too about the social services cuts not being made, I dread to think how it will turn out if we employed more of them, when one of those females who was in court was actually training to be one, or wanted to be one, that would hardly improve things would it, having that type in the department!

Maybe they ought to consider bringing back apprenticeships for the young people who want to work, with the Government footing the bill or even going half way with the employer in the private sector. Apprenticeships worked well for many years, it gave many people good working opportunities I could never understand why it doesn't happen anymore. Labour brought in all these new training schemes, I wonder what's wrong with those, for these young people not to want to do/try any of them? We need to train them up into something, it will give them an outlet and benefit the country, even if there aren't many jobs out there for them to take, they could try going it alone if they're moaning about the Poles etc. taking all the jobs!
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scorpio
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12-08-2011, 12:55 PM
Originally Posted by Helena54 View Post
Pot.....kettle

Well said there!

Claire and Sheree: If you watched the debate in parliament yesterday, you will have seen that the government are NOT going to back down on the police cuts. Time and time again the subject was brought up by the labour party and time and time again DC said that there would be NO cutbacks to the front line, but the police actually AGREE that they can make cuts in the back offices, which will cover the 6% reduction over 4 years, without reducing the police force that protects the country.

Mind you, that's a politician speaking there.....

That's a laugh too about the social services cuts not being made, I dread to think how it will turn out if we employed more of them, when one of those females who was in court was actually training to be one, or wanted to be one, that would hardly improve things would it, having that type in the department!

Maybe they ought to consider bringing back apprenticeships for the young people who want to work, with the Government footing the bill or even going half way with the employer in the private sector. Apprenticeships worked well for many years, it gave many people good working opportunities I could never understand why it doesn't happen anymore. Labour brought in all these new training schemes, I wonder what's wrong with those, for these young people not to want to do/try any of them? We need to train them up into something, it will give them an outlet and benefit the country, even if there aren't many jobs out there for them to take, they could try going it alone if they're moaning about the Poles etc. taking all the jobs!
I didn't watch that H...how frustrating, I have a number of friends that work for the police in various positions, most have been worried sick about their jobs for months

I did see a programme about those people that lost their homes/possessions in the riots, also the sister of that elderly man who got assaulted as he tried to put out a fire...how sad to hear that he had died of his injuries

I just don't know anymore...I can feel my little place in the country beckoning me...I can place my head in a bubble there and just let the world get on with things as it sees fit
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sarah1983
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12-08-2011, 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
Do they not have to eat, pay for fuel, utilities, clothes etc etc?????????????????
The ones I worked with certainly didn't pay for food, they stole it from their co-workers. And of course they'd do it when they were alone at the desk so there was never any proof. It was pretty damn obvious though when there were 2 of you in the whole building and your dinner went missing. Same with clothes, dvds, books, anything they could get their hands on.
Maybe they ought to consider bringing back apprenticeships for the young people who want to work, with the Government footing the bill or even going half way with the employer in the private sector. Apprenticeships worked well for many years, it gave many people good working opportunities I could never understand why it doesn't happen anymore.
You can still do apprenticeships, my brother's doing one at the moment. One of my friends qualified as an electrician a few years back with an apprenticeship and a day a week at college. The wage is AWFUL though. My brother gets £400 a month for a 40+ hour week, he's 20 years old. My mate got around the same at 18 (course he's earning a good wage now so as far as he's concerned it was well worth it). It's fine if you still live with parents but if you don't you simply can't survive on that.
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majuka
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12-08-2011, 02:11 PM
I'm in two minds what I think about national service. They have it in Greece so a number of family members have done it. TBH I don't think it made a massive difference to my cousin's life. He was studying graphic design prior to it and now is a website designer. However, my cousin has always had plans and ambitions and would have succeeded with or without his time in national service. As has been mentioned, it is worrying to think that those who are very aggressive in nature would receive training in weapons and combat skills and would be even more dangerous after it. But then I do wonder if a lot of people, who genuinely haven't had great opportunities, would do well from it. They would learn discipline, gain confidence and skills and benefit from working together with their peers. Maybe some people would get some benefit from it?

I think that teachers really struggle nowadays with pupil discipline. Both my BIL's are teachers. The younger one now has a really good job in a very nice school. However, when doing his placements he had jobs in some schools in Glasgow, which weren't so nice. He has gone to tell a child off and been told that 'I'll tell people you touched me and my dad'll 'ave ya' Teachers are understandably concerned about reprimanding a child, they don't want to get sued over malicious lies and they don't want to get beaten up by thugs or their parents. Like Helena I had teachers who could silence even the toughest pupils with a look. Teachers should be supported by the government more and allowed to discipline children.

Police as well are another example. As a child I was not taught that I should hate or be afraid or the police, they were people I could trust and I should respect. That doesn't seem to be a view echoed by a certain element of today's society. Police again are concerned about appearing heavy-handed

As regards benefits, I agree that not everyone is able to work but there are some people that simply don't want to work. I have no problem with someone who doesn't want to work, as long as they or their family are in a position to support them without claiming benefits. 2 years ago Dave was made redundant. He spent months looking for work and he applied for everything going, jobs that he was qualified for, under qualified for, over qualified for. He was delighted when he was called for a recruitment open day at a local logistics firm, it was a temporary job, on a massive pay cut but he was so pleased that there was a hope of him getting a job. There were so many people there, old, young, asian, black, white, long-term unemployed as well as the recently redundant. As soon as they were told about the shift patterns a lot people started to whinge about they couldn't possibly do shifts as they had no transport and public transport wouldn't be running at that time of night. They were asked where they came from and some lived as close as 1/2 mile from the workplace. Now, not everybody is physically fit and I do understand that, but a lot of these guys has been chatting about how they loved playing football and various other sports and yet they couldn't walk 1/2 mile to work? Dave actually lived a lot further than many of the other applicants. He'd lost his car as it was a company car. On certain shifts I would get home from work and give him the car and he would be back with the car by the time I woke up to go to work. The winter nights when he finished at 2am and cycled 3 miles home in the cold and the dark, he didn't care, he was just pleased he was working again. Yet so many of them were standing there in the break saying they would just tell the job centre they had no way of getting there and they could carry on getting their benefits without taking the job

I also think compensation should be prohibited in cases where someone is convicted of committing a crime and they sue the police or security guards, and yes, I have been involved in cases where that has happened...

As for some of the parents, I've no idea where to start with them. I'll leave that for another post!
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