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Insomnia
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19-03-2011, 01:16 PM
The one where he misses the body language...there is another clip showing his 'touch' has a ripple affect through her body. Her body language is screaming at him that she's not comfortable in the slightest, even her owner said it!
It's so sad that he doesn't even look for that language, she wasn't exactly subtle!
The kick video - well, I don't know what to say. I hate seeing the dogs strung up like that and kicked, you can see from their reactions it's a kick and not a touch. If (and I don't) I happened to touch Axel there with my foot while walking, he wouldn't react, he would if I booted him!
Poor poor dogs.
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dogdragoness
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19-03-2011, 08:28 PM
Yeah he's so bent on the notion that everything is trying to be dominant... Maybe its a man thing, I don't know but about 90% of the cases he works on that's not the case
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Dobermann
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19-03-2011, 09:57 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
i disagree

the former is an adjective which sums up nicely the skills of any good trainer, incl all those on here.
it doesnt have to imply harsh training.

the latter is a noun invented by JF specifically for her programme of repackaged ideas.

it is quite apt to view dogs in terms of energy, indeed, more so than operant conditioning.

dog savvy could quite easily become a sales term.
You disagree with what? The kicking? The reference to energy? The over use of aversives? the former what and the latter what? (sorry you didnt quote so not sure what exactly your refering to?)
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Dobermann
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19-03-2011, 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
all good trainers practice calm assertive energy - i think its a great phrase.

its otherwise known as being dog savvy.
Just seen this KW, you'll see that I did comment on how dogs respond to positive energy and yes you could view a dog as energy (everything is tecnically energy, even humans) but whats wrong with just a dog? 'reading' the dog would be better than rolling out a catchphrase that's promoted as a one size fits all. Fail to read the dog and it won't matter how calm and assertive you are if you do the wrong thing....

Dog savvy IMO covers much more than 'calm-assertive-energy'
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MerlinsMum
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19-03-2011, 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by Dobermann View Post
Dog savvy IMO covers much more than 'calm-assertive-energy'
Forget the energy bit - but isn't 'calm-assertive' the same as being firm? Which dog owners have been doing for aeons anyway?

Taking 'firm' to mean of course, assertive... and it won't do you any favours if you're flying into a tizzy, so yeah.... We've always been doing calm assertive. You can't get much out of a dog otherwise, and if you're new to dogs you pick that up quite early on. Which is, ummm....being dog savvy...no?

Give me Turid Rugaas any day. No pretentions there just great observation.
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Dobermann
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19-03-2011, 10:27 PM
Originally Posted by MerlinsMum View Post
Forget the energy bit - but isn't 'calm-assertive' the same as being firm? Which dog owners have been doing for aeons anyway?
I'd say thats staying calm and being confident, that phrase is far to much a product of CM for me and no where does calm and assertive mean kick the dog so I get your point but I personally dont like it, quiet confidence and empathy sounds better to me but thats a personal opinion it dosnt mean that I'm saying there is a right or a wrong

Taking 'firm' to mean of course, assertive... and it won't do you any favours if you're flying into a tizzy, so yeah.... We've always been doing calm assertive. You can't get much out of a dog otherwise, and if you're new to dogs you pick that up quite early on. Which is, ummm....being dog savvy...no?
The point I was trying to make is that CM churns this out as though its the answer to everything, now someone can be calm and assertive, thats fine. Be calom and assertive but dont think that shy dog still wont give a nip or cower just because your calm, I just think being dog savvy is more about reading the dog and taking it from there

Give me Turid Rugaas any day. No pretentions there just great observation.
Totally agree with you there and this is where the people I have seen as dog savvy people have been people who will pick up on the fact that the dog is licking its lips, looking away, pinning ears back......being dog savvy is as much about knowing how much is too much, when and where, being sensitive, not just calm and assertive. Which is what those words seem to mean to people now (i.e. just be calm and assertive and make them) when talking about dogs since the CM 'boom' thats just my experience and opinion though. Personally 'calm and assertive' is great but it dosnt really 'cover it' (dog savvy) for me thats all.
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Dobermann
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19-03-2011, 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by dogdragoness View Post
Yeah he's so bent on the notion that everything is trying to be dominant... Maybe its a man thing, I don't know but about 90% of the cases he works on that's not the case
or it could be 'little man syndrome'?

(sorry little men only a joke)
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MerlinsMum
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19-03-2011, 10:45 PM
Originally Posted by Dobermann View Post
......being dog savvy is as much about knowing how much is too much, when and where, being sensitive, not just calm and assertive.
Empathic is the missing word.
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Dobermann
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19-03-2011, 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by MerlinsMum View Post
Empathic is the missing word.
spot on MM

I'm not sure if I explained well but basically being calm and assertive (in yourself) without that isnt always very 'dog savvy' if you get what I mean? IMO
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Chris
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19-03-2011, 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by Dobermann View Post
You disagree with what? The kicking? The reference to energy? The over use of aversives? the former what and the latter what? (sorry you didnt quote so not sure what exactly your refering to?)
It was in answer to something I'd written about calm, assertive energy being a catch phrase much like another trainer's catch phrase of 'Amechien Bonding'.

The former is the 'calm, assertive energy'
The latter being 'Amechian Bonding'



In answer to KW in respect of 'dog savvy' becoming a sales term, I think the other two have actually taken that mantle. Dog savvy is a term in general use and, to be honest, I doubt there are many out there that wouldn't expect a dog trainer to be dog savvy and would possibly think it a bit silly to promote that they are
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