Hi AMTS :smt008

We agree on most things I think except the most important choice of dog, I won't try and dissuade you from labs, you'll realise soon enough which is best

Here we differ slightly to, because I don't go to classes the way I train is suited to each dog so I can spend a day or a week or a month on getting something right before moving on the next exercise, this is where I think training classes fall down, by their nature they have to be all things to all dogs, which I dont' think they can be, and in some cases I think they can hold a good dog back and maybe alter how good it will be in the future. I wonder if a better way of runing classes would involve a week or two of training theory for the owners with out the dogs then the owner goes away and starts training, then perhaps weekly or fortnightly owners and dogs get together with the trainer to demonstrate how they are getting along, the trainer can then give help on an indivdual basis and all the dogs would progress at their own pace. Probably a daft idea

Just as a matter of interest, the way I teach left and right is as follows.

I place a dummy against a fence, I walk along the fence with the dog and put him in to a sit, facing away from the fence, I step back a pace or two facing the dog, I raise my arm in the direction of the dummy and send him for the retreive, the natural thing for him to do is to run along the fence because I'm standing in his way, repeat it a few times, increasing the distance I move away from him each time he's in the sit. When I'm sure he's got the idea I start pacing the dummy in the other direction, in a very short time , hey presto I have a dog which knows which way to run when I raise my arm, using the fence intially ensures the dog runs in a straight line, with out the fence I find dogs tend to run a zig zag which isn't really what you want your when your giving a direction to move in

That reminds me of something else I don't really inderstand.

Its often suggested that we retreive 8 or 9 out of 10 dummies we throw! WHY? we have a retriever working for us whose been trained to pick those dummies up for us, not only has he been trained to pick them up, he's got it inbred through generations of careful breeding to bring things back to us, so why are we doing his job for him? I think we could be introducing the feeling in to him that we don't quite trust him to retreive so we have to do it our selves most of the time, also he could think one day " I can't be bothered working today, he likes retreiving so much he can retreive them all today"
Some peopel say though "ahh but it instills steadiness" how does it do that? you've already taught him not to move till you say so, so whats the point of doing it over and over again till the poor dogs bored to death with it

Just a thought for now :smt024

Arent this getting fun now.
It seems we finally disagrees on something (or I´m reading it all wrong again )

Wont even bring up the choice of dog. You will work what you find you can handle If and when you´re ready let me know. I think I know who to send you to then

I think I understand what you´re saying about classes and if I´m right I´m happy to say it sounds like we do things different here

Depending on which club you have chosen to take classes in, you will either sign up for a course at 8 weeks where the goal is x and y. Nothing more, nothing less. Now anyone can handle 8 weeks and the training, methods and handleing will depend on both dog and owner. It is possible to make sure everyone is following and those who do very well will be offered small extra "assignments". But when the course is done, you are being judged and depeding on you and your dog, you and the trainer decides which corse is next and if you want that.

The other club (the rival - which I have chosen to belong to ) will mix breeds and what stages you are at. Its up to you wheter you go each time or if you show up when you feel up for it. It is a requirement though that you are serios about working your dog and that you actually do train when on your own. Slacking off will mean bye bye.
Theres really no starting or stopping this class. But accasionally you will be judged and some will be moved to train with others and vice versa.
I personally like this because we all have our ups and downs and this gives the oppertunity always to be with "the right crowd". Both dog and handler.

I know the fence. I even think I´ve posted a video on here for Willow about it I mainly use it though to teach the back. Not the left and right as I havent found it nessecary (no zig zag).
None the less, it is a damn good exercise

About the handler picking up dummies (that is what you ment right?) I must say the number I´ve heard wasnt 8 or 9 out of 10, but more like the last 2, 3 or 4.

I must say when Ally was younger I used it. Mainly because it taught her not every dummy was for her, but also to keep her aimed at retrieving.
Sounds weird I know, but I can tell it works (or did for me).
I also think that succes is so important and by stopping when performing well and go picking the rest up yourself, you´ll be able to stop before your dog goes either tired or loses confidence in you.
A smart one would say "you should know when to stop" or "dont throw more dummies than you know your dog can pick up" and to that I agree. But I still claim the exercise works
Theres also the benefit in this exercise that you train your dog to be calm. Even when you move into the area where the good stuff is and starts picking up. Your dog should then relax and stay where told to. A pretty hard task especially for the young dog

Btw, thanks for the kiss. its nice to see we can both talk about this the DW way :smt021

Its many years since I last attended a formal training class, they're bound to have changed now, how about every one telling us how thier classes are run? also would you change anything if you could to make them better?

Hiya both
Interesting thread, I do love training discussions, I have never even watched a gundog trial so I might be talking total rubbish, but I have done searching for lost property, my question is If your doing a search where the dog has not seen the dummies put out surely 7 or 8 dummies will be much easier than one? and will the problem of the dog losing confidence be down to the fact that one or two in a large area will take much more finding than 1 of 8?
Daisy

Hi daisy :smt039

I´ll try my best to answer your Q´s

I see your point, but we make the searches like that to make it as "real life" as possible. All gundog trials are made to be as close to an actually hunt situation as possible and irl your dog can be asked to empty an area for game.

It might be easy to pick up the first 2-3, maybe even 4-5, but to keep your dogs energy high, make it trust you that theres more out there and to get it to empty the area asap is a bit harder than it sometimes look
Its all about training and building your dog up to be your "team mate" and to be able to solve all given tasks the best way possible

Confidence is a big deal and very important. When on a trial or an actual hunt, you are a team but you, the handler, most be in charge and call the shots. If you´re not two steps ahead, your dog will loose confidence in you and therefore be useless at what its suppose to do.
So support, positive training and a lot of succes is crusial to training a good gundog

If you would like to know and talk more gundog, why not join us in the section we´ve now gotten?