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Patch's Avatar
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25-01-2009, 04:31 PM   #31

Re: BC or WSD?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tassle
Gosh - my poor WSD - I truely hope no-one tells him he is a second rate slur!
You mean your BC

Quote:
Its very sad that people see it as a detrimental thing. I don't think that was ever intended by anyone
If the KC had`nt had a big falling out with a past sec of ISDS years ago I might agree with you

Quote:
- just a way to distiguish between those with papers and those without.
One breed, one name.
A Poodle with or without papers is still called a Poodle.
A Lab with or without papers is still called a Lab.
A Dalmatian with or without papers is still called a Dalmatian.
Do you see where I`m going here.....



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Tassle's Avatar
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25-01-2009, 04:37 PM   #32

Re: BC or WSD?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Patch
You mean your BC

No - I would never call him that - I have no idea what he has in his background - and I am more than happy for him to be called a WSD. Sorry.


You'd be amazed at how many people think he is crossed with an ESS because he is red.....

Now that would be an insult!!



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Banned / Account Closed
 
Dogs owned: 4 Border Collies
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25-01-2009, 04:51 PM   #33

Re: BC or WSD?


It dosent actually Bother me, but i do agree with Patch in Principal, Ie Unreg BCs could be put on the act reg as BCs
,thats in no way different as if i found a Goldie, reg it as a GR on the activites, Which i COULD do. No goldie breeders would want to use it would they?

What id be up for is for Activites Reg Dogs to be known as thus:

WBC (working Border Collie)
WGR
WGSD
WESS

etc etc



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Patch's Avatar
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25-01-2009, 04:53 PM   #34

Re: BC or WSD?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tassle
No - I would never call him that - I have no idea what he has in his background - and I am more than happy for him to be called a WSD. Sorry.


You'd be amazed at how many people think he is crossed with an ESS because he is red.....

Now that would be an insult!!
Well according to the KC a `wsd` is an unpapered BC. If you are not sure if your dog is all BC then he should be referred to as a crossbreed - he is either a BC or he is`nt, but wsd is not a breed of it`s own, it`s a job description
Your lad is either a BC or a crossbreed, he has to be one or t`other



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Tassle's Avatar
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25-01-2009, 05:04 PM   #35

Re: BC or WSD?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Patch
Well according to the KC a `wsd` is an unpapered BC. If you are not sure if your dog is all BC then he should be referred to as a crossbreed - he is either a BC or he is`nt, but wsd is not a breed of it`s own, it`s a job description
Your lad is either a BC or a crossbreed, he has to be one or t`other
He looks like a BC - but he is on the activitiys register becasue i am not 100% sure. In the same way that if I got a dog from rescue that looked like a PB goldie I would register it as a goldie - not being 100% sure! Without papers there is no 100%
Should I have called him a crossbreed?





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25-01-2009, 05:33 PM   #36

Re: BC or WSD?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tassle
He looks like a BC - but he is on the activitiys register becasue i am not 100% sure. In the same way that if I got a dog from rescue that looked like a PB goldie I would register it as a goldie - not being 100% sure! Without papers there is no 100%
Should I have called him a crossbreed?


You could Put down the goldie as a goldie, & in My opinion you were correct to put this one down as a WS & not a XB.

Thats whats wrong with it, every other dog is put down as a proper breed if it looks like one, except the collies



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Moobli's Avatar
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25-01-2009, 06:54 PM   #37

Re: BC or WSD?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Patch
WSD should imo be reserved as a reference only to BCs which actual do the job they were born to as a breed, it should be an honoured additional `working title`
Now *that* I do agree with

Welcome back Patch



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Reisu's Avatar
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25-01-2009, 07:32 PM   #38

Re: BC or WSD?


Ah see when I said WSD I meant a dog bred from working stock, ISDS reg or unregistered, and a BC as a show/sport line dog, but still both being BCs... think i see what ripsnorter meant by can of worms now though why is it the KC does this with BCs and not other breeds, seems a bit of a weird thing to do.
nice to see you Patch



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JoedeeUK's Avatar
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25-01-2009, 08:15 PM   #39

Re: BC or WSD?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reisu
Ah see when I said WSD I meant a dog bred from working stock, ISDS reg or unregistered, and a BC as a show/sport line dog, but still both being BCs... think i see what ripsnorter meant by can of worms now though why is it the KC does this with BCs and not other breeds, seems a bit of a weird thing to do.
So my dog who is ISDS reg is a WSD which is fine by me as he wasn't born in the Borders. Interesting thought, what are my two full brother & sister as they are from both KC dogs & ISDS dogs & when I have my litter the mother will be an ISDS bitch(born in Scotland or Wales-but not in the Borders)so will be a WSD & the father will either be Wukee or one of his brothers which would make the puppies ????????? WSD x WSD x BC ?????????

However I could use Wukee on a mongrel & register the puppies with the KC as WSD on the activities register & no one would be any wiser because they would look like BC/WSD, of course the genetic background to the mother would be unknown, but I could call her a WSD & have all the DNA tests done for a WSD which she might pass, but then have something from one of the breeds behind her that isn't usually found behind WSD/BC which would be missed(such as Narcolepsy that is in Labradors) & then somewhere down the line one of her offspring is bred to another dog from the same genetic make up & bang you have another genetic condition appearing seemingly from nowhere in WSD.

You can register dogs on merit with the ISDS but they do have to be from a known pedigree, in which one or more of the dogs haven't been registered with the ISDS for some reason(such as the breeder not being a member of the ISDS)

There is of course a case on record of an ISDS bitch being bred to an ISDS dog & producing a litter, which however when DNA tested, the litter proved not to be by the ISDS dog, I know of one puppy that was registered as an WSD with the KC(wasn't of course eligible for ISDS reg because of unknown background of father) In truth this dog should have been registered as a XB as no one knew who the father was, could have been another collie or a passing Heinz 57 etc etc etc. If this dog had not been virtually blind with CEA the query would have never arisen & a cross breed would have been added to the gene pool of ISDS WSD(KC BC)



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JoedeeUK's Avatar
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25-01-2009, 08:17 PM   #40

Re: BC or WSD?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mishflynn
You could Put down the goldie as a goldie, .............................
Please don't call Goldens "Goldies"-Goldie was a bitch on Blue Peter & is not the shortened version of Golden Retriever. The breed existed long before the Blue Peter dog



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