Labradoodle/Cross breed info

[Hevvur]

Some people must be determined to make it a 'breed', as they have already spread roumors that the KC were considering accepting it as a breed.
Wasn't true of course!

[Mahooli]

There are some people who are trying to set it down in stone but until there is a breed club and breed standard then it's not going to happen.
Becky

[IsoChick]

Basically, the story is:

Someone I know is getting a LD (not really a friend though). They are paying £950 for it ( ). The dam is a labrador and the sire a mini poodle. They're getting an LD because they're allergic to dog hair, so can't have any other sort of dog.

The little pup looks very cute, he's what I think of as a mini-LD as he is mini poodle size. Basically, he looks just like a mini poodle, but with a slight change of face shape, to more of a labrador shape.
I gave them the song-and-dance about the fact that there's no guarantee he won't shed, and that, as cute as he may be, for £950 they could have just bought a poodle. The poodle would have papers, be KC-reg etc and be a "known quantity" in terms of health etc. Apparantly, they don't like poodles, and that's why they won't have one - except they're getting a dog that's half poodle, and looks like a poodle.


Apparantly the LD breeders are part of the group that want LD's recognised as a breed by the KC. This is their 2nd litter of LD's (same parents) and they've got totally different pups than last time.

They seem to have given this person loads of spiel about genetics and the F2 gene and why the dogs won't shed. Also stuff about some breeders not breeding "proper LD's" because they're using standard poodles, not mini poodles; and that the dam has to be the labrador etc. They've also mentioned "breed standard" several times.

Of course, I bit my lip throughout most of this. Whatever I say won't change their minds. But it got me wondering about the validity of LD's - are there rules that people adhere to with regards sire/dam, or type of poodle etc?

[Mahooli]

OK I think they have blinded these people with incorrect science! Firstly the term F2 is the generation not a gene! Seondly if the parents are both pure bred but of different breeds then they are F1 generation not F2. An F2 is two F1's mated together! I have yet to meet an F1 generation that doesn't moult, if they are looking for a non moulting dog they will be disappointed. Thirdly there is no guaantee that the dogs will be small just because one of the parents is, having had first hand experience of puppies born to a dog and bitch that were 10 inches apart in height and all the pups grew to nearly 24" at the shoulder and not 14" like their mum then that is a load of nonsense as well.
In order to get the ono-moulting gene they have to introduce a large propertion of poodle usually F1 generation cross back to a poodle so they are 75% poodle so really they might as well get a poodle, they're cheaper as well.
If breeders really wanted these dogs to be recognised then they should be way past F1 and F2 generations and on to F8's or more with a closed stud book, then they're going to have to breed true for at least 5 generations before the KC will even contemplate recognising them so you are looking at a minimum of 20 years dedicated breeding from F1 generation, which they are nowhere near.
Do you know who this breeder is and pm me the details?
Becky

[Phil]

The problem is what characteristics in the LD are actually desired.

What is it's purpose ?

Once a purpose has been established then the obvious qualities can be chosen for 'selective' breeding.

Repeated breeding of the 'type' will then eventually result in a standard.

[IsoChick]

Originally Posted by Phil

The problem is what characteristics in the LD are actually desired.

What is it's purpose ?

Once a purpose has been established then the obvious qualities can be chosen for 'selective' breeding.

Repeated breeding of the 'type' will then eventually result in a standard.

From what I can tell, there isn't a definitive purpose (please correct me if I'm wrong!). People want non-shedding dogs or dogs that allergy sufferers can own, presumably, is one reason for the cross.

[Phil]

When I asked "what is iot's purpose" It was a rhetorical question.

In the very begining the LB was bread as a non allergenic guide dog.

In terms of developing the breed - some people want to avoid making the Labradoodle into a recognized breed, and believe that a true Labradoodle should only have Labrador and Poodle lines (first cross). By restricting breeding to Poodle and Labrador rather than from two Labradoodles they hope to maintain genetic diversity, and avoid the inherited health problems that have plagued some dog breeds.


Others are breeding Labradoodle to Labradoodle over successive generations, and trying to establish a new breed. These dogs are usually referred to as Multigenerational and because of the number of successive generations of Labradoodle to Labradoodle breedings behind them there is much more consistency regarding size, coat and type.

To be 'recognised' (produce consistently predictable characteristics) I guess the second method would have to continue.

[morganstar]

Lots of dogs are non shedding why not just buy one of these and at least you know what your getting and the health implications.
I feel really strongly about this its a cross breed to all intents.

[kirstya72]

Originally Posted by IsoChick

Basically, the story is:

Someone I know is getting a LD (not really a friend though). They are paying £950 for it ( ). The dam is a labrador and the sire a mini poodle. They're getting an LD because they're allergic to dog hair, so can't have any other sort of dog.

The little pup looks very cute, he's what I think of as a mini-LD as he is mini poodle size. Basically, he looks just like a mini poodle, but with a slight change of face shape, to more of a labrador shape.
I gave them the song-and-dance about the fact that there's no guarantee he won't shed, and that, as cute as he may be, for £950 they could have just bought a poodle. The poodle would have papers, be KC-reg etc and be a "known quantity" in terms of health etc. Apparantly, they don't like poodles, and that's why they won't have one - except they're getting a dog that's half poodle, and looks like a poodle.


Apparantly the LD breeders are part of the group that want LD's recognised as a breed by the KC. This is their 2nd litter of LD's (same parents) and they've got totally different pups than last time.

They seem to have given this person loads of spiel about genetics and the F2 gene and why the dogs won't shed. Also stuff about some breeders not breeding "proper LD's" because they're using standard poodles, not mini poodles; and that the dam has to be the labrador etc. They've also mentioned "breed standard" several times.
Of course, I bit my lip throughout most of this. Whatever I say won't change their minds. But it got me wondering about the validity of LD's - are there rules that people adhere to with regards sire/dam, or type of poodle etc?

One of my colleagues has a labradoodle but it is a cross (dam) labrador/ (sire) standard poodle not mini. I think she paid £700 for her, and I remember telling her she was off her rocker at the time but in saying that they as a family had their hearts set on a labradoodle and she has turned out to be a lovely dog but she sheds just as much as any other dog I have ever had