register for free
View our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
zoobooy
New Member!
zoobooy is offline  
Location: Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 9
Female 
 
02-08-2014, 07:27 AM

Training independent and reserved dogs...

Hi everyone, I would really love some ideas on how to go about, training a very reserved Sharpei X GSD. In the shelter where I work, all the dogs receive training and it's always my personal goal/challenge to find their natural strengths and to start building on that.

However, I'm really battling with this boy. I've been working with him for a month, and that is how long it took him to be comfortable with me handling his body and putting on a harness. I've started clicker conditioning him, and he is now starting to respond to the click. I can't use luring with him, because he runs away when I move my hands too much around him, so I'd have to use capturing, but he has not offered any behaviour for me to reinforce (he does not even sit at any point). I've started reinforcing eye contact, but even that seems to make him a bit uncomfortable after a while.

I have no idea what his history is, but it could not have been a good one. He trusts no one, and he has no clue what to do with toys, except for biting/chewing on them. (I guess that's a start.) He is food driven though.

So I'm really looking for some ideas on how to get him to offer something. Keep in mind that the run where he stays is not very big, all though I can take him out to a bigger area, it's not something I can do every day.
Reply With Quote
tawneywolf
Moderator
tawneywolf is offline  
Location: Bolton
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 24,075
Female  Gold Supporter 
 
02-08-2014, 10:32 AM
I don't understand why you are forcing eye contact on him. Look past him. Have tried taking a book or magazine in there and sitting with your back to him until he feels comfortable enough to move nearer. Capturing him and forcing yourself on him isn't going to win the day.
Even when he does come to you, just drop your hand but make no other movement, when he starts coming to the droppedjznd_ then use the hzndto stroke him, no sudden moves and still with your back to him. You are going to have to undo all that you have done and also stuff you have no idea of, so you need to go back to beyond that point, which is zero, and be very slow and quiet about it. A stressed dog is never going to take food from you, particularly after being 'captured' and then eye contact forced upon him. It may make you feel good though
Reply With Quote
zoobooy
New Member!
zoobooy is offline  
Location: Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 9
Female 
 
02-08-2014, 11:19 AM
OK, for clarity and the sake of proper communication, Capturing is a term used by clicker trainers. (which I am, I'm a force free shaping clicker trainer). It means you capture a natural behaviour by marking it with a click (like you would capture an image with a camera). And then you reward the dog. After a while you will be able to shape it into another behaviour. Shaping, also used by positive trainers without even having to touch the dog...

I'm not forcing him to do anything. Capturing eye contact was the only thing I had to work with (which means he made eye contact out of his own and I rewarded it), until realising he is not 100% comfortable with it, which is why I'm asking for other ideas here.

As I've said in my post, I've worked with him for a month until he was comfortable with me handling him. Nothing has ever been done with force. I've been doing wall flower exercises with him until he started to approach me, up to a point where he now jumps on me and licks my face. (not something I can exactly force is it?)

Please read my post properly, and then please help with ideas if you can. I can't undo what I've done with him, because that would mean I have to make him afraid of me again. (how does that make any sense?).
Reply With Quote
tawneywolf
Moderator
tawneywolf is offline  
Location: Bolton
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 24,075
Female  Gold Supporter 
 
02-08-2014, 11:38 AM
I'm not a clicker trainer so the word capture has different connotations for me, I've seen clicker trsining used so understand how it works. I saw the reply you gave about Airedale aggression and wondered why you weren't using your own advice, ie give the dog some space. If he's pleased to see you and not retreating then surely you are able to build on that. I only have my own experiences and am not a professional like you, I know what has worked when I've taken on dogs that display similar fearful behaviour to what you describe and turned them round the way that works for them
Reply With Quote
zoobooy
New Member!
zoobooy is offline  
Location: Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 9
Female 
 
02-08-2014, 11:45 AM
I realised that there might have been a misunderstanding regarding the terms. So no problems.
Reply With Quote
Chris
Dogsey Veteran
Chris is offline  
Location: Lincolnshire
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,921
Female 
 
02-08-2014, 11:52 AM
If he's still reticent, try concentrating on play for a while. Take a few balls in his run and just throw 'em about a little if necessary to gain his interest.

You should soon find that a few behaviours emerge to allow you to 'capture' with the clicker
Reply With Quote
zoobooy
New Member!
zoobooy is offline  
Location: Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 9
Female 
 
02-08-2014, 11:54 AM
OK, I will try with the balls. Maybe he will like that, thank you.

I've tried food dispensing toys (buster cube type of thing) which he wasn't afraid of but he didn't show any interest in it either.
Reply With Quote
chlosmum
Almost a Veteran
chlosmum is offline  
Location: Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen Hungary
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,036
Female 
 
02-08-2014, 12:49 PM
Hi Zoobooy ..... I've a 13 month old Shar-Pei, she's the second one I've owned, both since they were 9 weeks old. Pei are by nature independent and reserved, even as puppies, until they trust you, so what you are describing is typical Pei behaviour. Once you've earned their trust though they're the easiest dogs in the world to train because they instinctively understand what you expect from them. The other thing that makes Pei different from other breeds is that they have very subtle body language which can make them hard to "read". Very often the only way to tell what's going on in my girl's head is by watching the position and movement of her tail!

Tawneywolf has given some good advice about avoiding eye contact and ignoring your dog. It's a technique I've used with both my girls and it works well because if there's one thing a Pei hates its to be ignored by the person its become attached to. You're obviously making good progress with him now jumping onto you and licking you ... consider yourself honoured as Pei aren't the most demonstrative of dogs. Always, always give loads and loads of praise when due, my girl laps it up!

Hope that helps .... give my love to South Africa .... I lived in Durban before moving to Hungary 7 years ago.
Reply With Quote
zoobooy
New Member!
zoobooy is offline  
Location: Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 9
Female 
 
02-08-2014, 01:11 PM
Hmm, I was wondering if I should do a bit more trust building stuff with him before trying to do any training. Your post helped a lot giving a bit more insight to the breed. Even though he is a cross, he definitely leans toward the Sharpei temperament more.

I'll keep a closer eye on his body language. Thank you.
Reply With Quote
Florence
Almost a Veteran
Florence is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,223
Female 
 
02-08-2014, 02:50 PM
There's a great dog training book called 'When pigs fly: Training success with impossible dogs'.
It shows you some training techniques (with clicker etc.) for less biddable dogs that aren't naturally interested in working with you (their example is the english bull terrier which is known for being notoriously 'stubborn').

But I agree with what the others have said. I'd start with building a really good relationship with him first by just spending time with him. Go on slow walks together, exploring the environment, if he's interested in toys play with him, reward him often etc.
When training with a clicker, you don't have to wait for specific behaviours to capture, if he's not at that stage yet. You can do a free shaping exercise for example. Simply reinforce everything he does, a step forward, a shift in stance, a movement of his head etc. This will show him that trying new things, anything, is good and gets him rewards. Hopefully this will make him more confident and curageous and he starts offering some more advanced moves. It's also a great relationship building exercise. Good luck
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reserved Laura-Anne Dog Rescue Chat 19 14-01-2014 12:29 PM
Independent vs. dependent Mother*ship General Dog Chat 10 17-01-2009 10:50 PM
When will Scotland be independent ? nero Discussions 29 29-12-2007 06:48 PM
have just reserved my new pup...a GSD...cant wait melsgems General Dog Chat 10 07-09-2007 04:10 PM
Photo Have reserved a pup (australian cattle dog) Sara1210 General Dog Chat 21 22-09-2006 09:22 AM

© Copyright 2016, Dogsey   Contact Us - Dogsey - Top Contact us | Archive | Privacy | Terms of use | Top