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DeeBuzzby's Avatar
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16-01-2012, 10:54 PM   #11

Re: Epilepsy- side effects of Epiphen?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Star
Hi DeeBuzzby

Does Archie suffer from clusters or single fits? If his fits aren't being controlled, perhaps he needs an adjunct medication?
Hi Lucky Star, he has a single fit about every 5-6 weeks. This has increased from about one every 5-6 months a couple of years ago.(When he fits he becomes incontinent and produces a really gross smelling liquid which is neither urine nor faeces. No idea what it is... altho someone once said it was perhaps from his glands.. but the stench permeates everything for ages! Has anyone else experienced this?) I took him to the vet today and she's going to do a liver function test before she will consider increasing his medication....



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Shalva's Avatar
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16-01-2012, 11:28 PM   #12

Re: Epilepsy- side effects of Epiphen?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeBuzzby
Hi Lucky Star, he has a single fit about every 5-6 weeks. This has increased from about one every 5-6 months a couple of years ago.(When he fits he becomes incontinent and produces a really gross smelling liquid which is neither urine nor faeces. No idea what it is... altho someone once said it was perhaps from his glands.. but the stench permeates everything for ages! Has anyone else experienced this?) I took him to the vet today and she's going to do a liver function test before she will consider increasing his medication....
the smell is him releasing his anal glands .... I have not had my cuinn do that but he has released his bladder... that is fairly common during a seizure... you might talk to your vet about not increasing his phenobarbital but adding a supportive medication like potassium bromide... it has few side effects... is not hard on the liver as it is not metabolized in the liver and often allows you to leave the phenobarbital levels fairly low and still stopping the seizures... I use it in a liquid form (we call it cuinns special sauce) and i squirt it onto his food

the other thing is make sure you check his dog food and make sure there is no rosemary in his dog food as rosemary decreases the seizure threshold...



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16-01-2012, 11:59 PM   #13

Re: Epilepsy- side effects of Epiphen?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalva
the smell is him releasing his anal glands .... I have not had my cuinn do that but he has released his bladder... that is fairly common during a seizure... you might talk to your vet about not increasing his phenobarbital but adding a supportive medication like potassium bromide... it has few side effects... is not hard on the liver as it is not metabolized in the liver and often allows you to leave the phenobarbital levels fairly low and still stopping the seizures... I use it in a liquid form (we call it cuinns special sauce) and i squirt it onto his food

the other thing is make sure you check his dog food and make sure there is no rosemary in his dog food as rosemary decreases the seizure threshold...
Thanks for that Shalva, I will certainly suggest an additional medication rather than increasing the Phenobarb. Interesting about rosemary reducing the threshhold. Clever stuff! I'll go and check that....



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17-01-2012, 12:58 AM   #14

Re: Epilepsy- side effects of Epiphen?


How heavy is your dog? One 60MG tablet doesn't seem like much.

Rocky was on two 60mg tablets twice a day and was fit free for over 5 years. He weighed about 44KG.



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17-01-2012, 05:14 AM   #15

Re: Epilepsy- side effects of Epiphen?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalva
the milk thistle if used should be used as pulse therapy not as an every day thing... we found that at first the milk thistle was fine but after time we had increased breakthrough seizures when I mentioned this to the holistic vet she found the same thing in many dogs and now if needed she only uses it a week or two on and several weeks off and back and forth...

as it was explained to me milk thistle works by blocking absorption of things into the liver... and as such it blocks the phenobarbital from metabolizing as it should.

just be very careful
when I mentioned this to an epilepsy group that I belonged to I started getting lots of emails from others who experienced the same thing that I did
Milk Thistle [and SAMe] are not used as "therapy" as they are not AEDs and do not and cannot stop seizures.

They are used to help protect the liver, and both are perfectly safe on a daily basis for both dogs and humans, epileptic or not.



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17-01-2012, 01:20 PM   #16

Re: Epilepsy- side effects of Epiphen?


I am very aware that they don't stop seizures...

Sam-e is also different than milk thistle

however milk thistle has been known to cause problem with the metabolism of the phenobarbital and as such should not be used on a daily basis but rather as a pulse... a couple weeks on a couple weeks off .... a couple weeks on a couple weeks off.... that way it protects the liver but doesn't allow for the metabolism issues.

There are many people who immediately recommend putting a dog who is on phenobarbital to put them also on milk thistle... my holistic vets do not recommend milk thistle at all anymore because of the high numbers of dogs who have breakthrough seizures on the herb.

The Sam-e seems to have hte same protective value without the problems with blocking the phenobarbital



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17-01-2012, 01:28 PM   #17

Re: Epilepsy- side effects of Epiphen?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalva
the other thing is make sure you check his dog food and make sure there is no rosemary in his dog food as rosemary decreases the seizure threshold...
Was just going to say the same thing. There are various other things thought to contribute to seizures in humans but I'm not sure any of them apply to dogs. Will find the list I have.



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17-01-2012, 01:44 PM   #18

Re: Epilepsy- side effects of Epiphen?


Thank you Shalva, but I think I will stick to my vets advice regarding Milk Thistle.



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17-01-2012, 02:54 PM   #19

Re: Epilepsy- side effects of Epiphen?


Everyone has to do what they think is best. Everyone who has a dog with epilepsy has to do what works for their dog... if it works don't fix it.



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17-01-2012, 08:32 PM   #20

Re: Epilepsy- side effects of Epiphen?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Azz
How heavy is your dog? One 60MG tablet doesn't seem like much.

Rocky was on two 60mg tablets twice a day and was fit free for over 5 years. He weighed about 44KG.
Archie is on 60mg Epiphen twice a day. he weighs 18kg......



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