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Azz Azz is offline
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07-12-2011, 08:04 PM   #1

What do you think is the most important issue/s we need to tackle?


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07-12-2011, 08:13 PM   #2

Re: What do you think is the most important issue/s we need to tackle?


For me it would be eradicating the puppy farms. Countless dogs are suffering courtesy of these "breeders", and it doesn't stop when they are purchased by new owners, because then there are often serious health issues. The dams and sires are not health tested and in breeds such as Labs, for instance, this is leading to many dogs with serious issues; hip dysplasia etc.



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07-12-2011, 08:42 PM   #3

Re: What do you think is the most important issue/s we need to tackle?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Azz
  • Ban cruel electric shock collars? (✓*)
  • Stop ALL commercial dog breeders/puppy farms?
  • Introduce Swedish-like laws around breeding (where breeders are responsible for the entire life of the pup - they bred it they're responsible for it and where it ends up!)
  • Ban dog-racing(/betting on)?
  • Ban importing of dogs with cropped ears or tails? (Ofen used to flout the law)
  • Repel DDA - and put the emphasis on the owner, not the dog?
  • Anything else?

*banned in Wales already!
I am not a fan of bans, because they usually result in throwing the baby out with the bathwater and prove the law of "unintended consequences" like the DDA.

I can see no logic in repealing the DDA but then banning the importation of dogs with docked tails or cropped ears? Why? What would this achieve?

I can tell you it may reduce still further the genetic pool re breeding.

SOME aspects of the DDA require repealing, others need to remain and in fact be more draconian IMHO.

Stop commercial dog breeders/puppy farms? What is the definition of a commercial dog breeder?

Is there something inherently immoral about making money out of your skills, knowledge, ability, training and experience? If there is, well we will all be out of a job.

Swedish laws around breeding have also resulted in throwing out the baby with the bathwater by reducing the genetic diversity available with its draconian rules re hip scoring.



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07-12-2011, 09:52 PM   #4

Re: What do you think is the most important issue/s we need to tackle?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Azz
  • Ban cruel electric shock collars? (✓*)
  • Stop ALL commercial dog breeders/puppy farms?
  • Introduce Swedish-like laws around breeding (where breeders are responsible for the entire life of the pup - they bred it they're responsible for it and where it ends up!)
  • Ban dog-racing(/betting on)?
  • Ban importing of dogs with cropped ears or tails? (Ofen used to flout the law)
  • Repel DDA - and put the emphasis on the owner, not the dog?
  • Anything else?
It's so hard to know where to start, No3 (Ban puppy farmers) would be high on my list. If No.1 (Shock collars) has already been made law in Wales it should be relatively easy to get it extended to the rest of UK.

Part of the problem is that there are so many ignorant semi-illerates who know nothing about dogs in Britain now and they make life for genuine, caring, educated dog users a living hell quoting their 'uman rights and all that nonsense.



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07-12-2011, 11:34 PM   #5

Re: What do you think is the most important issue/s we need to tackle?


Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeybear

Stop commercial dog breeders/puppy farms? What is the definition of a commercial dog breeder?

Is there something inherently immoral about making money out of your skills, knowledge, ability, training and experience? If there is, well we will all be out of a job.


I do agree with these points. Perhaps we need to differentiate between puppy farms, and commercial breeders, as the two are not synonymous?



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07-12-2011, 11:43 PM   #6

Re: What do you think is the most important issue/s we need to tackle?


For me these are reasonable things to start a debate but most importanly for my is to

Raise the awareness of what it means to a responsible dog owner and then this can cover some of the content of your suggestions

I dont there is info anywhere that tells you what you are taking on in simple non emotional plain english terms when you have a desire to be a dog owner and where you can begin to explore this and gain some informed support.

Happy to discuss further and based on my experience both as a dog owner and in professional capacity !



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08-12-2011, 03:09 AM   #7

Re: What do you think is the most important issue/s we need to tackle?


Banning of prong/pinch collars



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08-12-2011, 07:01 AM   #8

Re: What do you think is the most important issue/s we need to tackle?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Azz
  • Ban cruel electric shock collars? (✓*)
  • Stop ALL commercial dog breeders/puppy farms?
  • Introduce Swedish-like laws around breeding (where breeders are responsible for the entire life of the pup - they bred it they're responsible for it and where it ends up!)
  • Ban dog-racing(/betting on)?
  • Ban importing of dogs with cropped ears or tails? (Ofen used to flout the law)
  • Repel DDA - and put the emphasis on the owner, not the dog?
  • Anything else?

*banned in Wales already!
Personally, I'd like there to be a full reform of Animal Health, Safety and Welfare issues that incorporated most of the above with the emphasis on commonsense welfare reform. I'd also like to see enforcement of the same (Laws without enforcement may as well not be in place).

Commonsense dictates that anything that is designed to inflict pain and discomfort on animals should be outlawed so yes, I would definitely like to see a UK/Worldwide ban on electric collars.

Breeding is less clear cut. Anyone who sells a puppy is, by definition, a commercial breeder. Therefore, ban commercial breeding and you are, in effect banning dogs. However, tighter controls on breeding, I believe, are required.

It's a nice thought for breeders to maintain responsibility of a pup for life, but in reality not very practical to be able to write a Law around it. I can foresee the Courts being full to capacity with something like this. For example, the breeder whose circumstances change meaning they cannot afford to care for a dog, are too ill to care for a dog, have unforseen changes in family circumstances (perhaps meaning they have to care for someone who is chronically sick/disbled).

The puppy farm issue bring up many problems around definition. Just for example, look at say the Met Police's breeding programme. They produce pups with the aim of targeting a specific market with their product (pups bred for specific traits) so they are, in effect, farming dogs to produce puppies. Should they be banned? What about the breeder who breeds more than one breed, but health tests, looks after mom and puppies well and ensures they go to decent homes? Should they be banned alongside the irresponsible who couldn't give two hoots about welfare so long as the cash is rolling in? So, penning a Law in this area should centre around welfare rather than numbers or breeds involved. Not an easy task.

Dog racing? Gut instinct says ban it because in its present state it is appalling in all respects (but I hate gambling also). However, it is no less a sport than any other so again, welfare should be the paramount consideration. Would we really oppose the sport if the dogs were well cared for throughout their lives, living in excellent conditions and weren't culled prematurely at the end of their career etc?

I would like to see an end to cropped ears and tails here in the UK. I do, however, think there needs to be more research into the pros and cons (proper research, not hearsay) of docking working dogs so that the loophole in present Laws can be either closed or left to stand. Cropped ears? No Earthly need for it so yes I would incorporate a total ban even if that meant outcrossing to extend the genepool in certain breeds. Dog welfare has to be paramount rather than the vanity of breeders and those wanting pups.

There are many good things in the DDA Law and one glaringly bad section. A revision of part of the Act is probably what you mean when you say repel it? Again though, careful thought and consideration needs to be applied when changing the Act to avoid one part of it changing and affecting the better parts that are in there.

A proper Health and Welfare Act that incorporated parts of all of the above would be, for me, the way to go. However, it's no good to change or introduce Laws if there is little or no will to enforce them no matter how good or bad they are.



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Azz's Avatar
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08-12-2011, 07:47 PM   #9

Re: What do you think is the most important issue/s we need to tackle?


Just to clarify what a 'commercial breeder' is, this is from the draft of the The Animal Welfare (Breeding of Dogs) (Wales) Regulations 2011:

Licensing of Dog Breeders
(1) The activity described in paragraph 2 below is an activity for the purposes of section 13(1) of the Act.

(2) It is unlawful for any person to keep 3 or more breeding bitches and:
  • (a) breed 2 or more litters of puppies in any 12 month period;
  • (b) advertise 10 or more puppies for sale in any 12 month period:
  • (c) supply 10 or more puppies to any person in any 12 month period;
  • (d) advertise a business of breeding or selling puppies;
  • (e) occupy premises which hold a planning consent authorising dog breeding; or
  • (f) keep 3 or more breeding bitches in kennel accommodation which an Inspector reasonably believes is consistent with commercial dog breeding.
  • without the authority of a licence granted under these Regulations.
  • (3) For the purposes of paragraph (1) any dog found on premises will be presumed to be owned by the occupier of those premises until the contrary is proved.

I think it's a good definition of a puppy farmer, and I would personally like to see them banned completely - instead of being the criteria for when you have to get a breeders license.

Source: http://wales.gov.uk/consultations/en...eding/?lang=en



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08-12-2011, 08:04 PM   #10

Re: What do you think is the most important issue/s we need to tackle?


I would like to see the enforcement of Animal Welfare and Cruelty laws put back in charge of the Police who are accountable and open to scrutiny.
As opposed to the RSPCA that is.



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