Dog attacks on private land ....

Now I know there have been a number of dreadful cases where dogs have attacked (sometimes fatally) on private land/property but along side the new microchipping law there are further proposals according to the papers : "Under proposals, legal protection against dog attacks would be extended to cover incidents on private property". These are to be extended to safeguard postmen and workers whose job takes them on to other people's properties. It would apparently close a loophole that meant owners were no longer immune from prosecution if their dog attacked someone on their private land. It goes on to say that householders would though still be protected if their dog attacked a burglar or trespasser.

My query and concern over this is when is someone trespassing? Is a trespasser a lad delivering a free sheet through the door, a cold-caller selling cleaning products etc? Should we all have signs on our gates that say 'No Trespassers' or 'No cold-callers'? I know we are advised never to have a sign that says Dangerous Dogs Liver Here' etc etc. I do have a sign on our gate (which is 80yrds from our house) that says 'Please close the gate' and another that says 'Dogs running free'. How else can we protect ourselves from any tom-dick-or-harry walking up our driveways uninvited, but in fact only doing a job they are being pad for i.e. estate agents free sheet.

Now I do not own a dangerous dog, my dogs love people but I feel this isn't the point. What if my dogs were out in the front garden and some oik claimed that my dog had attacked them .... for their monetary gain. It would be their word again mine.

I'm just interested to know what other peoples view is of this.

I am aware that this subject has been covered lightly in the thread about 'compulsory microchipping' in this General Dog Chat section, but just wanted to get some more views on this issue specifically.

It's a very dodgy area isn't it?

I think we all know that people aren't always the brightest and often ignore those signs to alert to the presence of dogs. I've got a sign over the letter box regarding cold callers and leaflet dropping, but I still get a bagful of leaflets dropped every week and the odd cold caller so the signs don't really do the job.

I've a dog that is very friendly to everyone, but still have the garden locked off so no one can enter without I let them in. However, we can't cover every eventuality. For example, just as we moved in, one of the visiting grandchildren next door climbed a stepladder to lean over the six foot fence. Another incident was when the stupid neighbour at the back of us actually lifted and propped up the fence to paint it (the type that slots into concrete posts - it's now wedged in place).

I can see trouble ahead with this, but it's something that every dog owner is going to have to deal with and make their gardens and homes as secure as they possibly can

I actually agree with the proposal, my dogs can't access the front door or the front of my house unless I allow them to. I have a locked side gate so no one can innocently wander around the side of the house. I also have gates either end of the side access way so the dogs can't get anywhere near the side gate accessed from the front without me allowing it. A trespasser is someone who has accessed your property, be that house or garden without your permission and has not done it accidently. As in you have taken all reasonable steps to prevent them accessing those areas. Postmen etc should be able to go about their jobs without being accosted by dogs whether they are friendly dogs or not.

Odd isn't it that you can't put BEWARE OF THE DOG signs up in the UK but here in Cyprus it is a requirement if you have a dog!

I don't comply with this as I live in an apartment (no gate or front yard - they'd have to absail in onto the 4th floor verandah) so I think it would be stupid.

When the storms of 1987 blew down my 6ft side fence I thought I'd have to get it back up PDQ but my lovely old GSD behaved as if it was still there - bless her she treated the demarcation line between our garden and the one next door as if it was an invisible force field.

I agree with what you are saying completely, but what if a child clambers on your back garden fence and falls in, or just jumps in for their ball that has come over. Children don't think but at the same time it is hardly your fault or your dogs if they then get attacked. I don't think you should be prosecuted for that, but it sounds as though you might be, yet really it would just be an awful accident.

We had a door installed near the end of our hallway so the dogs cannot get to the front door (one we had at the time would try to catch post as it came through the letter box and we were worried he might catch a hand.

We always when we have anyone here doing work (gas man etc) put the dogs in one room and they are told not to open that door. Even the most friendly dog is no help if the person is afraid of dogs and not everyone loves dog hair and slobber (odd people I always think).

When we are at our caravan we have the gate locked and when we found one of the neighbours leaning over the fence we put up trellising above the fences to stop him, silly thing to do when you don't know the dogs and it stopped him encouraging the dogs to try and get over the fence.

Only place I am less than confident is the car, several times people have put their hands in through the windows and I am not sure how to prevent that ? all my dogs have been upset by that and snappy if it persists. But obviously we want to be able to get air into the car.

If a child came over my back garden fence they are technically trespassing although no doubt too young to be accountable but they would have to scale a 6' fence with 2' trellis on top and if they managed that would disappear amongst the dense foliage.

I think you are focusing on the wrong end of the stick.

Surely all dogs should be under sufficient control WHEREVER THEY ARE be it our garden, our house, hotels, parks, etc so that they pose no threat to anyone?

I would never dream of putting my dogs in a position where it is remotely likely that any law abiding citizen going about their normal business could be exposed to them and put themselves or my dogs at risk; any more than I would tie them up outside a shop etc.

The answer is simple, I have a front garden which is accessible to all, I have a back one which has only one access/egress which is lockd and 6ft wall all the way round.

If anyone chose to come in to my property over the walls and thus expose themselves to my dog and ignore the BEWARE OF THE DOG sign they must take the consequences.

I have extended my duty of care to both my dog and the public.

Parents have a duty of care to keep their children safe and again, should they deliberately expose themselves to risk the law of the land would deem that I had done everything reasonably practicable to keep all parties involved safe.

I had some problems with kids trying to get over my wall and I visited the police explaining what was happening and what the result of their action may be, ie they would be very badly bitten by my dog.

I have not had any issues since the police had a word with these children nor anyone else.

TBH it is no different than the Reasonable Force issue.

Nothing is foolproof but if you have done everything you can to prevent access I think you have nothing to fear.

For example I have lockable car crates, this would not stop some moron putting their fingers through the mesh so I use a 24" ventlock and park very strategically so anyone would have to go out of their way to put themselves at risk.

No different to people who scale fences and jump onto railway lines etc.