I don't think it is to promote as such but more to be of interest, there is so many classes out there these days, its nice to have choice.

Great ... so what is it? How does it work?

hi dijoiedevie,
sorry you feel you have been attacked for your veiws on training. I find all methods intresting and have over the years seen many methods, personaly I guess I have taken bits and pieces from certain methods which i find of use, this I guess has developed into my own method taken form a mixture of ideas. I think you have encountered the great british tradition of taking something new(ish) ripping it to bits to find any falts/problems then building it back up in a way useful to individual people, hope you dont take it personaly we just kinda like to chew stuff, then find what we can use in it. My comments on useing this with horses was not intended to offend, I thought it was a comparison that some people would understand, then again I guess it was infact unhelpful as most of that type of training in horses is liberty training which after reading your more recent post (soft collar lead) is more like using the new style halters for horses, so sorry if I confused the topic.

X shona X

oh I live in larbert and would love to see the training in use can you pm the details of the classes for me

That horsepart I din't consider any way insulting. The person who tought this pack drive to me is called 'dog whisperer' in Finland. He somehow talks dog and can read dogs AND humans like open book. That's why I know I have long way to go.
On monday I was with him in problemdog training again. That group started with a bunch of howling, barking, attacking dogs 9 weeks ago. Now there was complete silence, dogs only staring at their owners. Breeds from Irish Wolfhound, GSD, schnautzer, terv, to mixed breed tibetan terrier. All people without experience. It was such a joy to be in there, see that and hear that silence.

J

lmao GSD your priceless
yup think scent whistling could work for my lot :smt044 reserve a copy for me lol

Lucky star I wouldn't do anything to hurt my dogs and niether would my trainers by that I mean you had mentioned the word gentle...saying that I only recently started training using pack drive and all I can say is my 2 have improved dramatically, more focused and willing to please, without treats...I didn't think it would work because I used treats in the puppy foundation classes... they haven't even noticed the treats are missing...I think the key is repitition, if they don't do it the first second or fortyth time, patience and perserverance will prevail they give in before I do, and they love the big fuss when its right. I haven't trained in these classes long enough to argue any point for them only the difference it has made to my dogs in a short space of time.

Hi Trouble thank you for the link, very interesting reading

Jenni I can't find where anyone attacked you or said (quoting you) ..

I think you may be misquoting my post when I said ..

I am interested in all training methods and talking about them other than those which are cruel and harm dogs either physically or mentally. I was actually thinking of posts other than yours when I said about 'not putting people off using food' (posted by a person with a hidden agenda). They didn't bother to reply when questioned and I don't think they will now
http://www.dogsey.com/showpost.php?p...2&postcount=66

Jenni the initial post said ..
it didn't actually mention training just rewarding ...and you replied ..


Perhaps when you used food as a reward you used it incorrectly? Were you using it as a lure or a reinforcer or both? Was the 'food reinforcer' visible ?
You say you used 'corrections' what type of correction?
It seems you began with food in the initial stages of training , then after the dog had bonded with you moved on to packdrive, so yes I guess it worked well at that stage of training.

First of all, how training and rewarding can be separated? Rewarding just to be a dog? Umm, does not compute.

And I had the best finnish food trainers to give me hints. The point in all of this, that there was NO BOND between me and my dog. But there was a very strong bond between the food and my dog. Understood? Dog bonded to me, when I used me and bonded to food when I used food. Dog had no respect on either one. And as far as I have seen on training fields, that is the most common problem for normal people, as you said are visiting on this forum. Food and dogs' disrespect. And no pribing, how nicely you theoretize or explain or excuse, makes respect. Not in humans, not in animals, and that part we are the same with dogs.

I really have to ask Theo if he has time to go this over and over and over.

J