Mini & KW ~ please don't argue. You're 2 of the most experienced, kind & welfare-oriented dog people on here. We need to be singing from the same hymn sheet to refute the claims made by these e-collar "trainers".

I've watched one of Adam's videos (the one with the collie going in the water) & IMO the little JRT looks completely scared, confused, suppressed & anxious. (I forgot to put the sound on so watched in silence ~ but it probably helped me concentrate on the JRT's body language!). If you compare that to the normal body language of a dog enjoying itself, having fun & being able to run around & do its own thing, then it's so easy to see the difference. Poor little chap.

Ben's video shows happy eager & willing dogs, concentrating on Ben, watching her every move, happy body language, alert & responsive. The two videos are soooo different. If any member of the public (let alone experienced dog owners) couldn't tell the difference, I'd be amazed!!

It's nowhere near enough to have "obedient" dogs. The only reason most pet owners require obedience is for the dog's own safety & to stop them doing things that humans find unacceptable. And I don't think anyone who purports to care about the welfare of dogs would swap "happy" for instant obedience, if that meant compromising the dog's emotional health.

Hi Wilbar I think we are, but sometimes even the good guys need a gentle reminder to get them moving.. (see post 73 )


...absolutely and what is heartening to me is that so many other people can acknowledge this too.

indeed...................................

It certainly appears that way. It also appears that the dog is very, very wary of his handler in the lead walking video.

I'm late to the party but WOW this is really bad. The only time a dog came to you was when it was fetching and while you may pretend it came because you said "come" it did not. It was headed toward you anyway.

The little JRT (Jacca?) looks constantly stressed and doesn't pay you one bit of attention.

You called Jacca over and over and over again and the dog NEVER CAME. It came NEAR you but was only following the collie in the water. So despite all your "I'm a trainer" stuff it's just a pack of lies. I see no evidence of someone who knows how to train dogs in this video at all. When I call my dog, no e-collar EVER USED, she comes. Right away. She leaves whatever fascinating thing she was doing and races to catch up to e immediately. I don't have to say it multiple times and I don't have to shock her.

Thank you for proving what we've known all along.

Hi Kruse

Basically they emailed me a few weeks prior to me getting him, they detailed his history in the email and asked if I would take him, I said no as I'm a trainer not a rescue but offered training help. They declined, so I forgot about it.

They then emailed me the night before he was due to be pts saying that he had to go. I agreed to take him and picked him up the next day.

When I met him he was crated and extremely aggressive towards me. Once out of the house and in the car he settled down and I got him home. He met my dogs through the gate and was very aggressive, attacking the gate/trying to get at them. After this I put them out the way and brought him inside. He was relatively calm then but later when crated he became very aggressive when I walked past and attacked the bars of the crate.

The next day I started working with him.

For the first few weeks he was very aggressive to my collie (entire male) and tried to attack him several times. When this happened I uses the recall and collar to stop him. The collie would also growl/hackle up ect. After a few repitions of this he began to back off from the collie a bit more. However he still had his trigger moments were he would attempt aggression. I dealt with this the same way, because of his food aggression I hesitated to use food to counter condition him to the collie as it re triggered the aggression, same with toys.
So the video shows him having been around my dogs for a few weeks experiencing praise for none aggression and recall/collar for aggression, from that point onwards I counter conditioned him as outlined in the OC V cc Post.

With regards to his behaviour on the lead. In the initail stages of our relationship he would food guard and also use intimidation to obtain food and toys. Basically if you had something he wanted he would charge you growling to get it. I was working on this separatly but also wanted to make him calm on the lead and keep a losoe lead to deal with the leash aggression. So I was unable to use much rewards when on the lead as it created aggression.

With regards to his relationship with the collie. Since stopping the aggression between them and the food/toy aggression he has been able to learn how much fun his big bro is. When walked they chase the same stick, and generally run and play together. When crossing the yard to go out for a walk the collie walks beside me and the jrt bounces around us and jumps up at the collies face and play bows.

Adam

Adam... this is a adolescent csv... 'recalling' (albeit roughly done' please note he looks to his side,he there are 3 dogs on leads one he lives with two he does not,the reason he looks is because one of these dogs lunges at him...he still comes anyway.. happily !!! no e collar needed



any vids of this?

So the day after you got this little guy you started zapping him?
Mia was also vvv food agressive, I trained her giving her treats at the same time as Ben, then ben a milisecond before her, building it up until she was happily wagging her tail watching Ben eating treats because she knew she was getting some
In the park she has sat in a group of 8 dogs politly waiting for her treat - with her ears pricked and tail happily wagging

I know you say you are happy with your end result, and i cannot comment cos i havent seen them now
but i have to ask, looking at the videos you have posted can you not see how stressful the training is to the dog?
and I dont even see that it is that much of a quick fix because I had Mias food problems with Ben sorted out in a v short space of time too, but she was never cowed or unhappy

and mini and wilbar, thanks for your kind words about my pair, I make many many mistakes but so long as training is always something fun then I guess it really dosent matter in the long run

lol - just wanted to add, Mia is not crying at me because Ben has found a bone and is chewing on it - and she wants it, but no agression - she is just asking me to sort things out for her

When I had Champa he was not happy with other dogs, at one point he picked my JRT up and shook her slitting her throat. He also made holes in the others

He was muzzled in lots of situations after that in order for it not to ever happen again, he was then taught to hold a toy when running. Rarely will dogs spit a toy out to eat another dog.

He was also taught that I will sort any problems out and protect him. So he comes to me and asks for help by jumping up.

He now accepts all the dogs who come to visit as well as family dogs. He is never left alone with the others due to the possibility of him fitting---when he comes out he will be VERY aggressive.

rune

ive not read all the post but i did notice quite a few talking about the JRT video so i trawled back and found it ...and OMG ....

that video is a Great example of why you should NEVER subject a dog to ecollar 'training', i had a jrt full of life and spirit quite the opposite to that scared little dog in the video!......that person knows sod all about training they are a disgrace