To answer the question: Does mocha lay down when there are no distractions?

she did once yesterday when I was teaching come with a sit.
In the video that I watched on K-9 training, it says to have your dog sit in tight to you. Sometimes she doesn't sit in tight, so I have to take a step back and say 'come' again. Except once when I did this, she just layed down. I've had to have her come and sit closer to my right side in order to get her to come in tight to me.

Maybe you're asking too much of her. She sat already, she likely doesn't understand why it's not satisfactory. I think this may be a case of trying to do too many things at once. Once you confuse a dog, they will give up. Get her to sit, and just move closer to the sitting dog before you praise or treat. Don't make her get back up.

How about you let me in on the secret, eh? Show me where I said that PR doesn't help train a dog. Don't turn a statement I didn't make into something different because you feel that way, show me where I said that. If you're going to quote me, actually quote me. There are statements, and then there is the perception of them.

I said no such nonsense and quite frankly don't like being accused of it. I only said what you see. And that is that the training isn't so good if it is not working. Not all PR based training is created equal, and when done wrong, or simply not suited to the dogs personality and attention span, even PR will fail horribly.

I only suggested an approach that I thought might be useful. I don't think I needed my statements broken up like that, but so be it. In retrospect, it seems the true owners of the dog might have unrealistic expectations of her anyway. Mocha (the OP) is only trying to help train the dog.

Training a dog and then returning it back home may not work. Training really needs to be hands on with the owners for it to have maximum effectiveness. The dog might decide to listen only to the person that trained her, I've seen it before. I bid the OP good luck.

Is she living with you now, or do you go into her owner's home to train her?

If she is living with you, there is a great risk that when she goes home, the training will undo unless the owners are taking part in the process too.

I'm not sure if I'm reading it correctly, but it sounds like she is living in your home (ie indoors), but will go back to owners who will keep her outside?

Mjfromga
I pointed out the drawback of your suggestion and elaborated on your advice with more information and tips which is useful for the OP, thats the the point of forums.
The problem with suggestions is that people follow them
and as I said before luring is useful but not in this case so maybe the first part of your statement applies here.
I'm not saying you mustn't make suggestions but expect to be corrected if they could cause a problem. If you think I was wrong about the possibility of chaining then explain to me why.
I would point things out to any member here if I thought they were wrong and I would hope that they would point out if I was wrong. Its the only way to learn and if people aren't interested in learning and getting it right then I would wonder why they were posting in this section in the first place.

In this case the OP was training the dog by following the video exactly but did not have enough experience to realise she was over facing the dog .


I was agreeing with a lot you said BTW

Well, well. Aren't we an expert? At least you did not further waste my time by saying I said something else that I did not say. It's nice to ask what one meant before we accuse one of saying something that one did not say. Since we are making suggestions, allow me to make that one, huh?

I actually think the idea might work. Anything might work if not tried before. Who knows? Unlike you, I'm not so quick to shoot down other people's suggestions, even if I don't think they will work. Maybe they will work, even if it's never ever been tried by anybody before and seems stupid.

As for the video, I'm sure that under no circumstances is there a chance that you're wrong. I grow weary of old people stepping on me just because they can. I offer advice that I have personally used and seen used effectively. It may take longer to achieve what you want, but I think it's worth a try. It may not work, but you have no assurance that it won't, but you think you do.

I'm not sure what kinds of dogs you're used to training, but my Labby guys seem to get things without "duncing" the training like many dogs would. Perhaps your "chaining" would happen, but that's better than the current IMO anyway, but perhaps "chaining" wouldn't happen. Oh, wait... you said it would so that is 100% correct always.

Back to my previous statement... it seems that Mocha is going to have a hard time regardless. She seems to be trying to train the dog for people who live somewhere else and will be keeping the dog differently. If that is the case, regardless of the methods used, there is a moderately high chance of failure.

Myra, I happen to know more than you. I can't help that. This is the second time I have pointed something out to you in a short while, the other was about timing. These are basic training mistakes that you dont seem to be aware of and could cause problems for the poster and they wont understand why because they were doing what they were told to do on a forum.

There is a huge difference between something not working and something that has a good chance of teaching the wrong thing and having to undo that wrong.
I didnt make up the laws of nature and learning , they exist.
All I said about the videos was that it was good to see PR being used. I didnt make any other comment about them.

The difference between me and you is that I've been lucky enough to know professional trainers/ behaviourists and when I didnt get something quite right they said so and they said why. I wasn't arrogant and dismissed them because I felt they were "stepping" on me , I took in what they said and learn from it, that doesnt mean to say I always agreed with them.

I'm not that interested in you or bothered by you that I want to "step on you because I can" . My interest is with the OP.
You can do whatever you want with the information , ignore it, dismiss, or take it on board . It would be a shame though , if you do dismiss what people have said to you here simple because you feel thay are getting at you.

Well thats me done, life's too short to waste arguing.

I did not dismiss your information. I don't care how much more you know than me, that doesn't mean that you get to put words in my mouth. It doesn't mean you're always right. It doesn't mean much of anything except that you "know more than me".

I stand by my statements. Old people who may know more than me dont realize that other things besides the stuff they're used to might work. I don't make a habit of dismissing things before I try them. Even if they don't work exactly how I want, perhaps they will help. I find that in life it's fine to think outside the box. The box in this case being your theories of PR training.

So fine, think you're teaching me this and that, tell me I'm wrong and that what I say won't work or is counterproductive, but you know something? In some cases, I still think it's worth a try and who knows? Just perhaps it'll help. It's your right to tell others whatever you want, I can't stop that.

As for you not caring enough to try and single me out, that's fine. We can say things, but they can just be words. I don't think that you are necessarily singling me out, but you could be. I don't even care, I'm not a person to take back words.

It's like you said, this thread is about the OP. I won't get an apology for you shoving those absurd words into my mouth, and so I have no further comments that are directed towards you. I certainly will be giving no apologies. We're done here, at this point it's just a waste of thread clogging time.

In addition, if you're going to use my username to try and explain what you meant, then there is no point in using my real name to condescend me. Please refer to me only by my username.

You don't have to follow the video to the letter , you can be more relaxed about this and not have her sit in tight.

I wonder if she would be better of staying with you for keeps rather than going back to the farm.
You will have to specifically train her not to chase chickens ', and obviously that has to be done at the farm unless you have chickens yourself to train her with.

I use your user name to make it clear who I'm quoting to save confusion . Not all people know your real name.
It comes up automatically when I click quote otherwise if I click and paste I type it in.

The only reason I use your real name is because its shorter and its more easier for me to remember the spelling than your forum name.
Really, I dont have to refer to you by any name at all, its just a habit for me to use names .

ETA to add That I'm not asking you to change or take back your words. That would be like flogging a dead horse but perhaps from now on it would be better if I pointed out to the OP any misgivings I have instead of saying something to you directly , I just thought it was netiquette to point it out and discuss with you first.

You some old people have tried a lot of things over the years and they know the pitfalls and drawbacks from experience. Old people dont make a habit of dimissing things either , your advice was to lure which I expect nearly every trainer and/or owner in the country has used at sometime or another, including me .
All these things you are discovering when you train your dogs, they already know because they have already tried it
. The only things I haven't used are shock collars and prongs and I certainly dont need to use them on my dogs