I've "mutilated" both my dogs at 8/9 months old. I think that's a very emotive term to use, in what is obviously, for most people, quite a thought out and practical decision. It's not mutilation by any means.

Do you class speying a bitch as "mutilation" too?

The risk of them mating is too high for me not to. The majority of people where we live don't neuter/spay and there are at least 7 or 8 dogs down my road who are allowed to wander up and down the road without supervision (both dogs and bitches).

We also have family and very good friends with unspeyed breeding bitches, and so I don't want to have to leave my dogs home every time we visit in case one of the bitches is in season.

I think you're right in that it's now about population control, now that the health benefits claims have been not only disproved but possibly upturned. And yes, agree for the "uneducated," probably the best solution.

I think I covered that in my last post

"If there was a significant chance of accidental breeding, or possibly for behavioural reasons, I would wholeheartedly support neutering"

I consider any unnecessary elective surgery to be an unnecessary mutilation, not meant to be emotive but what other term can you use for removing a normal, healthy part of a living creature, heard it used often enough about docking and that is not removing a part that is vital to the animals well-being. Not sure where you all live that has so many free range in season bitches walking the streets you obviously have problems like I have never encountered.

Don’t get me wrong I see no reason not to spay a bitch over 5 or 6 years of age nor a dog with health problems that can be alleviated by castration I just cannot believe it is necessary to put a health dog through an operation, particularly a young dog on the very long odds that you may not be able to look after them properly.

If that is the case I would ask the council to send the dog warden to deal with the matter, free range dogs are against the law.

Not sure I would consider a purely social matter a reason to put my animals under a GA - one can always pick up the phone and if a visit is essential then leave the dog at home or ask your friend to keep the bitch shut away.

Unfortunately, we live in the countryside, a lot of the people down our road are very lax about their dogs and their safety/well-being.

For instance, our next door neighbour has 4 dogs (of different breeds), 3 boys and a girl. They are all free to wander where they like when they are outside, none wear collars and the owners don't care. There is an small industrial works at the end of the road, and the foreman/manager brings his bitch to work and doesn't seem to care if she wanders off the yard to explore the street.

We have 2 part-time dog wardens who work 10-4, no weekends, no nights etc. They cover a huge area by themselves (mostly countryside), and are even more under strain since the police will no longer take strays in. You have to drive them 15 miles to the nearest kennels to hand them in.

The few times (in the beginning) that we called them, it took up to 5 days for them to come out. Of course, the people we reported apologised and said it wouldn't happen again. End of story. The next time they were reported, the warden left a note for them to call her.

We even have visits from a large un-neutered male GSD who likes to try and get into gardens and houses (belongs to a caravan park on the road). If there is a bitch in season nearby, he can get very aggressive to dogs, even if they are in their own gardens.

I don't want my boys fighting with other males, or mating random bitches (Boxer X Jack Russell anyone??).

On the social reasons theory, this would mean every time I went to visit 2 of my best friends, I would have to leave my dogs at home. Between them they have 4 unspeyed bitches (2 of them being mother and sister to my boys). It's hardly fair to leave mine at home when we see them every week (say, for the whole of a Saturday or Sunday, or meet during the week for a walk) or ask them to lock their dogs up for the whole day.

I'm part-way through reading this link about non-reproductive effects of spaying and castrating

http://www.acc-d.org/2006%20Symposiu...ession%20I.pdf

It seems relevant to the OP question but I haven't read enough of it yet to form an opinion of the contents.

Anyone else seen it and willing to give a precis?

They are not old wives tales sadly but veterinary facts

Correlation of medical research into cause & effect of early neutering

I am not anti castration parsay I am anti prepuberty neutering based on clinical studies not old wives tails.

The fact that a castrated dog can mate an in season bitch & that if left unsupervised can result in fatal injuries to both male & female

There is on record a litter DNA tested produced by a castrated male who was castrated 1 year before the mating & whose owner was told that the bitch could not have puppies to him by the vet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whether to neuter or not is a personal decision and depends on circumstances, what is best for yourdog. I would never tell someone not to neuter just because I have chosen not to in the past. I don't intend to with Beau but this is not set in stone and could change.
What I object to is being preached to, it is your choice to neuter the same as it is my choice not to.

Hi RC good to see you here.



Superb link, thank you for posting!

I've only scanned through it so far, but some very interesting stuff, particularly in breed specific effects on aggression.......

The results of the study suggest that spayed female dogs tend to be more aggressive toward their owners and to strangers than intact females, but that these effects of spaying on behavior appear to be highly breed-specific. Contrary to popular belief, the study found little evidence that castration was an effective treatment for aggressive behavior in male dogs, and may exacerbate other behavioral problems. Further research will be needed to clarify the relationship between age of spaying/neutering and these apparent effects on behavior.

HAve to agree with whats said about early neutering. Many males particularly I have seen are "gangly" leggy dogs with little substance, pretty bad in some instances, females similar but dont appear as bad somehow. Coats go awful on most of the coated breed, ruins them. Many appear to lack condition, muscle is often less visible, they feel soft too. Not always but in many cases.
Dawn.

hello pod

thanks for the welcome.

me too. There are about 60+ pages!

Laura Sanborn gave a very spirited defence of her meta study http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongT...terInDogs.pdfa
a few weeks ago on Dog Pages (am I allowed to say that?) which is worth looking at. She joined the forum specifically to answer critics of her study and explained how various risk factors were arrived at.