Patch, I think you have a bundle of great advice to give most people on this site, but I think a few deep breaths are in order, you cant slam Sally as cowardly as your language suggests, I think whether you agree with the methods or not this isnt an act of cowardice, its actually an act of love.

I think its a shame that people have jumped on Sally, she actually hasnt said her method is better than anyone elses they have suggested, shes implied it has got results.

Why dont people say Hey Sally im not a fan myself have you tried such and such, it worked on this particular instance.

Why just pick apart people.

Said it before theres some smart people on this forum and youre one of them around dogs, offer advice not condemnation and please dont resort to calling people cowardly because they didnt get offered an alternative at the time when they were given help using an ecollar.

A one on one discussion with you would probably go a lot further than you picking holes on how windy it needs to be before you dont let your dog out for a leak....

im sorry - you got a ridgeback because you wanted one, not because it best suited you, unless of course theres a few pride of lions need cornering when you and the Lancashire Masai are out hunting - dont think you can tell people what they can and cant have.
Ive got a staff because of their reputation with kids and I WANTED ONE - i got a GSD because my staff is the sh1ttest guard dog ive ever seen and because I WANTED ONE -

why is a dog bred to hunt lions suitable to you ?

Firstly you haven't read your RR history of course I wanted one but I took into accout their history and questioned whether I could cope with their traits
I would never tell someone which dog to own but I do think that if you choose a breed with certain characteristics then dont be surprised if they show them. It is called research.

I too prefer to teach a dog to sit without touching it that way the dog is thinking for itself .

Sally I note you live in Lancashire, I did too once and there used to be many areas where you could take a dog for a run without lifestock being around, there is both moorland and beaches and while access to these may not be a daily option they could be used for the occasional free run without a line.

Some time ago , late last year I think this topic was mentioned in a news item on TV. If I had previous doubts about the acceptability of using an ecollar (and I didn't) the news footage confirmed my worse fears. I clip was shown of a GSD type dog reacting to an ecollar poor thing, it let out a screech and the look of fear and anguish on that dogs face would make and dog lover recoil in disgust
I can see no possible use for ecollars at all.

I agree, have you forgoten this recent thread Sally you shouldn't have you started it..
http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=87054
There were many suggestions made to help you including a link I posted to a method suggested by Wysiwyg ..

How many of the suggestions have you tried Sally?
If I remember correctly you also said in the other thread that the problem started when your dog was a puppy and kept escaping, isn't up to an owner to make sure their garden is secure for both a puppy and a dog before they get a dog .You also said in the other thread that you only tried the collar once and couldn't afford to buy one anyway, and that you forgot there was a park near you where your dog could run free.

I too am wondering why the topic of ecollars was opened up again by you in this thread which had not been used for a couple of weeks. Why not add to your previous thread updating us on the methods you have tried so far. Or did you buy an ecollar after all, I am surprised anyone would support them quite so vehemently after only one trial, if one trial didn't work why support them, if it did I am surprised any are sold, why buy one when a single demonstration does the trick.

no i havent read it all - can you give me a brief synopsis then please to put me in the picture.

"I am sorry you took offence to this remark but I stand by it. When choosing a breed of dog, you choose it to suit your own circumstances."

so what did the ridgeback bring more to you than anyother dog?

Sorry if it looks like she is being picked appart
People have given lots of alternatives and gone on to explain why they do not like shock collers
Why is it picking appart and being nasty for people to say why they dont like something

the methods I use to train my dog I have looked into as much as I can and I am always adapting and learning
If someone comes on and gives really good reasons why they dont use a method I will take a step back and think long and hard about it
if at the end I do not agree with that person then I am still free to use the method I am happy with.
Sally is free to do that
as is anyone else reading this thread (which is about smacking and ecollers - not about sallys trainnig methods - as said before she already had a thread on that - so I think it is nice that people have again taken the time to answer her questions that were already answered before)


I also have to add on the subject of pain and what dogs show
I 'know' someone on another dog forum whoes dog actually died from playing fetch - it was overheating badly but the owner didnt realise because it didnt show it
I also 'know' of (again dogs on the interenet) collies who out in the feild working sheep have taken falls or knocks that have broken bones but they do not even limp till after the work is over - not because they have a higher tolerance of pain but becuase they can hide the pain they are in if the situation is such that it might not be safe or advisable to show pain


Afraid I have to disagree on the CM thing - I have not seen many eppisodes cos I hate him but a simple one springs to mind
CM comes to door camera over his sholder
dog goes mad
cut to camera over dog's shoulder - looking straight at CM
he makes his psst noise
cut to camera over CM's shoulder again - dog is quiet

that is put together to look like one flowing shot and how in charge he is
thing is it is impossible to be done in one take cos you would see the other cameras
So it is misleading telling people that because he is so in charge he dominated the scene and the dog instantly respected him

have you actually been reading this bl00dy thread?

the thread was asking smack or ecollar ? - fair question got my interest

say neither if you dont think either, have a biscuit and stop your grannying.

SALLY HAS NOT TOLD ANYONE TO GO BUY AN ECOLLAR

SALLY HAS SAID SHE HAS KEPT HER DOG ON THE LEAD

SALLY HAS SAID SHE THINKS SHE SAW THE ECOLLAR HAVE SOME RESULTS

SALLY HAS SAID AS A RESULT GIVEN THE QUESTION SHE@D TAKE A COLLAR IN THE RIGHT HANDS OVER A SMACK

the girl started another thread asking for other opinions so why you getting on her case -she aint actually trying to ram them down anyones throats???

If you PM me I will gladly fill you in on RR history and why I chose one

Do you think you should choose a dog on looks alone and not look into it's breed traits?
If I chose to have a BC and it showed herding instincts. Should I be surprised or should I have known this to be a possibility and train accordingly.
It is not a hard concept and I am surprised you are having trouble with it

yeah i dont think you watched it properly then, he stops a dog doing something, he didnt fix the dog with one ssshhh and ive never seen ( and ive seen more than you you say ) anything done with one ssshhh and he then asks the families / owners to incorporate his methods / change what they have been doing etc etc - no different to any other dog training show format except his methods aint as popular with some as others. Anyone who has properly watched an episode of DW and comes away saying he fixed that dog in five minutes is also the same sort of person who probably penned a letter to Mavis when Derek died of a heart attack on corrie.

As for Sally im not suggesting that people giving advice are wrong to do so at all - thats what these forums are for, but this aint a witch hunt and I dont think youve been rude to her on the thread Ben, but if everyone stops and counts to ten and takes a step back I think we can see that it was done, in the past with best intentions an Sally said she witnessed results - thats pretty much alll she has said. She has mentioned shes surrounded by livestock and just wants that peace of mind that should the unexpectedd happen and her dog got loose it wouldnt harm an animal or put itself in harms way.

People have seemed to have rounded on her because she might rationalise pain differently to how they do and thinks the minimal pain she perceived ( and as dogs cant talk everyone haas to perceive certain things with their dogs) her dog felt was discomfort and a worthwhile short term consequence that may save the dogs life in the future.

Is this the right solution - a lot of you say it isnt and you may well be right - but Sally took advice in the past and has basically said on this thread what sshe witnessed when she took it was a dog that she didnt think was in great discomfort and was responding - pretty much all she has said.

People on this thread say they never let their dogs offf the lead at all - i dont necessarily think thats fair or the best way to treat a dog - it my opinion.

People have told Sally on this thread she shouldnt have a certain breed - and I think thats a bl00dy cheek - and I think its a bloody cheek to use language such as cowardly in the context of someone whos done something with good intentions.

im just about keeping up though I dont actually get what concept Im having trouble keeping up with - the fact that a person can choose to have whatever dog they like ?

Do you think you should choose a dog on looks alone ? - you aint going to admit it but I bet it was that or the macho image that attracted you to the ridgeback - or was it its extreme tolerance to temperature changes that nailed it for you.

Think its very rude to tell someone what they should and shouldnt have well all that person has been guilty of is perhaps not picking the best way to stop its dod doing something.

So come on in a few sentences what traits put the ridgeback top of your shopping list for dogs as it obviously wasnt its striking appearance or unique look that did it for you?