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24-06-2008, 04:27 PM
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24-06-2008, 04:28 PM
I said I despise old fashioned trainers,who base their training and practices on "THE DOMINANCE THEORY" NOT DOMINANT DOGS of how all dogs are like a wolf ,and we need to be Alpha and be dominant... That a wolf pack acts in a certain way, where in fact the whole study was a very short , studied on a captive wolf pack. Completely different to a natural wolf pack. This study people like Jan Fennell have based all their teachings on.Ceasr Milan etc, alpha rolling .... A one size fits all approach to dogs which IMO does not work.
I never once metioned Dominant dogs and breeds.. I all to aware certain breeds are more dominant and strong willed , and need clear boundaries, and someone to respect.
I never once implied people of certain breeds bully their dogs into submission!
I know certain breeds are more pack orientated too, thank you.
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24-06-2008, 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by sallyinlancs 
I'm not saying it was pleasurable but just because he 'didn't like it' and it interrupted his behaviour, doesn't mean it inflicted pain or fear.
How else would you explain his spot on response to that and nothing else ?
I HAVE bought a whistle! And I am using it off lead, at a distance but AWAY from livestock - but he responds well under those circumstances anyway. I wouldn't trust relying on a whistle while livestock are near, but I WOULD trust using the e-collar.
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24-06-2008, 04:33 PM
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24-06-2008, 04:35 PM
Originally Posted by Moonstone
Malady you misquoted me again!
I said I despise old fashioned trainers,who base their training and practices on "THE DOMINANCE THEORY" NOT DOMINANT DOGS of how all dogs are like a wolf ,and we need to be Alpha and be dominant... That a wolf pack acts in a certain way, where in fact the whole study was a very short , studied on a captive wolf pack. Completely different to a natural wolf pack. This study people like Jan Fennell have based all their teachings on.Ceasr Milan etc, alpha rolling .... A one size fits all approach to dogs which IMO does not work.
1 singular study is what you are talking about. There have been many studies done on this, including with domestic dogs and the similarities revealed.
Which study in particular did JF base her training on ?
I never once metioned Dominant dogs and breeds.. I all to aware certain breeds are more dominant and strong willed , and need clear boundaries, and someone to respect.
I never once implied people of certain breeds bully their dogs into submission!
I know certain breeds are more pack orientated too, thank you.
So you are now saying you 'know' certain breeds are more dominant and pack orientated, but before you said this :|
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24-06-2008, 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by sallyinlancs
How else could you explain if the whistle worked in the same way?
But a dog whistel isn't under discussion and not the issue here, so please can you answer my question ?
How else would you explain his spot on response to that and nothing else ?
I have tried and tested him with the e-collar around livestock and I know that it works and he would be SAFE from being shot.
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24-06-2008, 04:47 PM
How else would you explain his spot on response to that and nothing else ?
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24-06-2008, 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by Malady
So you are now saying you 'know' certain breeds are more dominant and pack orientated, but before you said this :The dominance 'theory' is what's described as a set of behaviours, that you just said you know about !! I'm confused !
Malady, life is really too short to sit here arguing about one little thing that I obviously worded wrong originally....
I can quote you the studies if you want,JF used, and the fact that some of her ideas she nicked from Monty Roberts who is a horse whisperer but would that really make any difference, because I would probably type something else wrong, and then you would pull that apart too!
As for the topic.. anybody who shocks or smacks their dog should not be allowed to own a dog IMO.
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24-06-2008, 04:58 PM
Originally Posted by Moonstone
Malady, life is really too short to sit here arguing about one little thing that I obviously worded wrong originally....
I can quote you the studies if you want,JF used, and the fact that some of her ideas she nicked from Monty Roberts who is a horse whisperer but would that really make any difference, because I would probably type something else wrong, and then you would pull that apart too!
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24-06-2008, 04:59 PM
Originally Posted by sallyinlancs
I don't know that nothing else works - a whistle may work just as well! Or a rattle bottle! Or a squeaky toy! But I'm not going to test them out around livestock and put my dog's life at risk!
If so, WHY did you go striaght to the shock collar, before trying the other things mentioned ?
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