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Gnasher
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03-06-2016, 08:54 AM
Originally Posted by Jackie View Post
Did they pot children in with wild gorillas then ?

Has David Attenborough come out to back up your opinion then ?
What on earth are you on about!!
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Chris
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03-06-2016, 12:45 PM
"David Attenborough was filmed with some of Fossey's gorillas for the 1979 television series Life on Earth. The encounter has gone down in television history, because some of the young gorillas started playing with Attenborough.
Clearly, it is possible to meet a gorilla and come away entirely unharmed. But the gorillas Attenborough met had been carefully habituated to humans over many years, and everyone involved knew how to treat them with respect.
In different circumstances, gorillas can be truly dangerous".

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160...orillas-really
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Jackie
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03-06-2016, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
What on earth are you on about!!
It should say ..." Did they put children in with wild gorillas then "

Refarring to your opinion that a wild gorilla would not hurt a child, bases on watching David Attenborough ???

You must have formed your intelligent opinion on some research or TV programme , surely !!!
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Gnasher
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03-06-2016, 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by Jackie View Post
It should say ..." Did they put children in with wild gorillas then "

Refarring to your opinion that a wild gorilla would not hurt a child, bases on watching David Attenborough ???

You must have formed your intelligent opinion on some research or TV programme , surely !!!
Jackie: Read the link that Chris has posted to the BBC site, I had already read it before it was posted up and found it to be one of the most informative pieces of information that I could find on the dangers that gorillas pose to human beings. In a nutshell, although it mentions deaths, there is nothing specific and absolutely no serious injury or death of any children in either wild populations or in zoos.

The facts are that gorillas do not pose a threat whatsoever to the young of our species. Adults especially males need to be more careful, and the advice is to not look a gorilla in the eyes, avoid eye contact, and remain low or seated.

Dian Fossey and David Attenborough are just two of the countless hundreds if not thousands of adult humans who have enjoyed physical contact with these magnificent creatures. Those few who have sustained broken ribs or other injuries have basically made errors and not observed the rules.

Would I get up close and personal with a fully grown silverback given the opportunity? You betcha! The risk is virtually non-existent - and I rest my case that it was a big big mistake to have shot dead Harambe.
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Meg
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03-06-2016, 03:21 PM
I feel very sorry that the Gorilla was shot (and in a Zoo in the first place unless part of a conservation programme ) however all animals can act unpredictably in certain circumstances particularly if they or their 'possessions' are 'threatened'.

I will never forget watching a documentary where a chimpanzee pulled the head off a little monkey

The Gorilla must have heard the noise from the crowd and sensed the atmosphere of fear, anything good or bad could have happened to the child .

What would people have said if the Gorilla had been shot with a tranquilizer dart and while it was working he had panicked and harmed the child.

No matter how much people try to analyse what happened, nothing can change what is done.
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Chris
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03-06-2016, 03:32 PM
I think you've missed the point, Gnasher. Those gorillas that Attenborough got up close and personal with had been carefully habituated to humans otherwise the programme would probably have been very, very different.

Remember also that it was a four year old who fell into the enclosure who would not only have not followed rules (he wouldn't have been in the enclosure in the first place if he had), but would also have not followed rules with a gorilla that had not been habituated to children.

They tried to call him away from the child. I don't think they could have done any more than that whilst keeping the safety of the child in mind.

I don't blame the zoo for shooting the magnificent animal although I do blame them for not making the enclosure 100% safe for young children visiting the zoo.
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Gnasher
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03-06-2016, 07:58 PM
No, I've not missed the point at all! Young children are not perceived ass a threat to gorillas - tame or not. From all my researches I have found out that that is a fact ... what is also a fact is that adult humans CAN and ARE perceived as a threat with wild or tame gorillas if they do not behave in an acceptable way to the gorillas.

Children seemingly do not need to follow the rules - within reason I would think. Gorillas naturally recognise the young of our species and react accordingly.
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Chris
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03-06-2016, 08:39 PM
The child had just fallen at least 15 feet and had unknown injuries at that time. The gorilla was pulling said child roughly through the water. The authorities had no way of knowing whether or not any injuries sustained in the fall were life threatening or not.

Adults would have had to get up close and personal with the gorilla to attempt to get the child out. How do you think the gorilla would have perceived any attempt to get the child away from him?

It's not a stuffed toy we are talking about or the on-screen persona that is often portrayed of gorillas, but a living, breathing animal with one heck of a lot of power
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Gnasher
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04-06-2016, 11:05 AM
You can clearly see from the video footage that the child appeared to be relatively OK. He is sitting gazing up at the gorilla, and also the gorilla can clearly be seen adjusting his clothing and patting him!! The child was clearly not seriously injured.

If it were my grandson in that situation, I would have been been in there like a shot to at least attempt to try to lure Alfie away from the gorilla, or failing that, lure the gorilla away from Alfie to give e the keepers a chance to rescue Alfie. Provided I did not challenge the gorilla or look at him, he would not have harmed me, it is absolutely clear to me though that I think he would have been very reluctant to release the child ... he had assumed the role of protector, probably antagonised by the screams and hysteria of the humans, and he was protecting the child. How a successful retrieval could have been attained I am not sure, but as sure as hell it could have been attempted with marksmen standing by just in case of a full blown attack, but I just do not think this would have been the case. Everything I have read on the internet about gorillas, written by serious scientists such as Dian Fossey and Jane Goodall amongst others, persuades me that gorillas are not a threat to humans ... especially young humans.

I would like to hear what the young lad has to say about his experience. At 4 he is just about old enough to be able to tell us in detail of how he felt, whether he was scared, exactly what happened between him and the gorilla. It would be terribly interesting to know and I do hope we do.

I am sorry to seemingly be so intransigent on this subject, but I feel so very, very strongly that the zoo acted far too hastily at the very best.
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