I was at a show in early summer (when we had a heat wave) saw plenty of pekingese in one form or another beign kept cool, even saw great Danes sitting on wet towels, and Newfoundlands being drenched in water and wet towels... because it is being kept cool, does not make it unfit

So what you are saying is , that a dog that looks well and fit , trots up well, is not carrying any excess weight and looks in the picture of health. needs to be put through a strenuous exercise routine to prove it is fit for life

What do you mean the judge needs to see the dogs activity level, ???

A pug that can walk happily with an owner, go to a show and perform in the ring, does not need to be run in a marathon to prove its fitness for function???

A badly put together dog will show any signs of it in the ring, it does not have to jump round an agility ring to prove it.

The KC, IS putting its money where its mouth is, but it takes time, what do you want them to do, insist every show dog is capable of running round an agility ring!!

P.S, did you look at the links to the ACS, rather puts to bed the theory that they cant work, as you thought!!

What rubbish, you seem really jealous or something Rips, Im not sure why? There is nothing wrong with the feathering in the pictures of the SHOW dogs WORKING, is there? They ARE doing their job. its many of the working Spaniels that have deformed legs, barrel chests and very little feathering at all, is that correct? They have been bred deformed, how "correct" and moderate is that?

Humm interesting argument.

Do you think the working ability should be placed in the breed standards (where possible)?

I do feel that possible fitness tests should be devised for some breeds where it is either not possible or feasible for them to have working tests.


Do you really think that? I meet many people with overweight dogs, unfit dogs etc and they do not seem to be able to see it.
As to Judges.....I do not think they are always looking for the dog most fitting to the breed standard.....either that or they are looking through rose tinted glasses.

Do you? How long have you exhibited for and at what level?

Actually the first line of the Border Terrier breed standard is:

"Essentially a Working Terrier"

"Spanning" a Border and other Terriers is essential to them being able to work properly, its a vital part of the standard.

Working and showing should imo tie together, there are plenty of daul purpose dogs to show this works and imo a dog is in no particular order conformation, health, temperment and working ability, and should be judged as a package, as the breeds roots are important, their meant to look the part, so imo be able to act it the dogs that win are also meant to be the best dogs there, but that only seems to be on conframation, something a club has decided, and in some cases can cause health problems because of certain traits have become excessive, doesnt happen with every breed or even every breeder in that breed but it happens, and it shouldn't of done. Also the mag may of taken and shown the pics may of edited the cc, I'm not sure, but they are not the ones who did this to the dogs, the breeders and showers are.

Yes I do.. anyone educated enough in dogs to be a judge should be able to tell a fit dog from another, I have never seen a dog placed at a show that has been severly over weight, couldnt walk ect. I showed Lyric at the club show and the judge said to me she wasnt placing me any higher because Lyric was to fat - she was correct Lyric is slightly over weight and still carrying boobs from her phantom. I wasted my time going, but we had fun.
Many pet people will see their dogs as being perfect in every way and wont accept they may be to fat and the like, but like I said I would have thought anyone to be educated in dogs let it be showing, working or competing in other areas would be able to tell a unfit dog from a well balanced fit and healthy one.

Maybe they did.. but hey got everyone talking huh? not sure what you mean by that bit Chaz, the breeders and showers did what

I have met many people (as I stated) who have dogs I would consider unfit and/or overweight - and they cannot see it.

As to competing - I have 1 purebred dog who is 3 - she has been shown a couple of times in open shows locally. That is my personal experience.

I have, however, been to multiple shows (including Crufts) and been lucky enough to be with people who show to championship level and have been doing it a very long time. I value their opinions and have been quite startled when they have pointed out to me obvious faults on the dogs that have been put up over others.

However - I was responding the the fact the DD said any person (not specifically a judge) can tell if a dog is unfit.

ahh thats brill - My bad.. I havent seen any standard before that mentions working side of things Mind you I havent looked through many