Couldn't be further from the truth, I myself show my dogs so have no axe to grind with the show world. My axe is all about changing a breed to make it more flashy for the show ring, instead of sticking to the breed standard.

Again I will produce the definition of moderate:
Being within reasonable limits; not excessive or extreme:

The second dog pic I posted is not moderately feathered. A working gundog does not need that amount of feathering, it was not and is not necessary. It does not serve any purpose other than to make the dog appear more glamorous. It has been bred in due to fashion reasons by people who had little regard for the dogs working background (although it has to be said this is slowly changing and with it dogs of excessive coat that I've posted are now on the decline). This isn't an opinion, it's fact. If that was the correct coat according to the standard then ESS will have looked that way since the year dot. Yet low and behold when you look back at the show pictures from decades ago the ESS looked more like the first picture I posted. Therefore the conclusion is the dogs have been bred with excessive coat so as to look more glamorous for the show ring. It doesn't matter how many times you ask me to look at the links, this fact will never change (I have looked, many, many times, everytime you've posted them in such a debate in fact, although I have already stated that I don't feel Mompesson are one of the kennels to breed dogs with excessive coats (see post 51)). Pictures of dogs retrieving in grassland is lovely - when they are Labradors.

Oh and one last thing, please, please enlighten me as to what I'm supposed to be jealous about? You seem to be avoiding the question (I think this is the 3rd time I've asked now?), but I truly would love to know!

Its pointless discussing it with you, you appear to have a serious bee in your bonnet for some reason, Ill leave it buzzing around!

It's funny, but I thought you might say that.

No Bee here, just a passion for a breed. With moderate feathering.

Oh, any update on my "jealousy"?

Translation----'I can't answer the question'.

I have been following this thread with interest. I don't understand why some people can't see that there are alot of things wrong with showing ---in the same way that there are things wrong in agility, trials and any other dog sport.

As soon as someone points them out they get bombarded---told they can't know anything because they don't do it and now told that they are 'jealous'!

DUH!

rune

Bingo!

I don't know, I guess it's all about pride. Some people are just too proud to admit they're not always right perhaps?

Rips listen. You were always pro show, pro work, now I see somebody completely different. I see somebody who had health issues with a dog she showed and cannot breed from, and another dog she bought to show and his temperament has given problems now, so thats not possible. I do see jealousy in perhaps others able to do it, maybe you feel cheated? perhaps not, just my OPINION but certainly somebody showing bitterness who didnt before.

Those opinions again!!

Interesting take on it---I see someone who has had their eyes opened.

With a lot of help from this forum I would imagine (G)!

rune

I think you're confusing me with someone who's 15 years old!

I'm very much pro working and very much pro showing, that hasn't changed and I'd really love for you to point out to me in this thread where I've said anything other than that. My problem and the point of this thread, is to debate the breeding of ESS with excessive feathering when the breed standard does not call for it.

I can't breed Isla because of her cataracts and I'm very proud of the fact I've taken that decision. To see beyond your own goals and desires and put the dog and breed first is not something that happens often enough imo. My time will come with the ESS and I'm more than happy to wait.

I might start showing her again if her coat stays "sane", but it I don't doesn't mean I love her any less. Or the breed for that matter, the ESS is a passion for me - always will be. With moderate feathering.

Oscar is a work in progress. I bought him to work him, showing was just going to be an aside really. He's come on leaps and bounds of late and I'm really chuffed with his progress. He might never learn to enjoy showing, but time will tell. I certainly won't push the matter with him, there's more to life than showing after all. And when Oscar is hunting, pointing and retrieving I'm guessing he'd agree with me!

So you see, you may see bitterness, but all I have is a love for the dogs I own. Inspite of all their idiosyncrasies.

I think, as always Dawn, you see what you want to see to fit your preconceived perceptions. You've lost the argument, so in an effort to feel like you're winning again and feel better about yourself you try and put the other person down. JMO of course

Anyway, back on topic!

Hohohoho

Eye wide open here Lynn, I CAN see past the smoke....

Can I ask why you keep putting letters in brackets?