I dont think emotive things should never be brought up - but at the same time I dont think that just because I say I really hate one tv celebs methods it means I am calling other people cruel, I am not talking about you or anyone elses methods - I am talking about CM's methods - I find them - and the man - cruel


I think the problem is you are seeing the end point here, for many years each of us has been fightiung alone against a loud majority of CM lovers - and trust me I have had all sorts of abuse chucked at me for suggesting that CM is not the most amazing thing on earth
Also a big problem is the worst bits of what we see him doing I see as abuse - and I will always when I can speak out very strongly against abuse, so for me I find it really difficult to try and find good in someone who is abusing animals because many people believe his methods are correct, even if they look wrong to them - they assume because he is on tv and some things make sense then he must be a total expert with more knowladge and understanding than them - so they believe without question and do cruel things to their dogs even tho it sits badly with them
Yes many on here have the sense to cherry pick bits - but others do not
So I cannot see the good in him because its the good bits that suck some people in to blindly follow him - because if x bit was correct then he must know his stuff
Sometimes people in general need the wee child to stand up and say the emperor is naked
(actually a good analogy - get a child to watch CM and they will become upset and ask why the man is hurting the dogs)

You are making some excellent and clear points, IMO, Lucky Star

Me too

Yes, I agree in that sense he does good and I can see why people feel that he sometimes does good things, and is not all bad. However, I'd disagree with I think it is Gnasher, I do feel that his deliberate cruelty does, unfortunately, negate any of these things.

I know what you are saying Gnasher, but I guess our ways of looking at things is different. See, I think JS became involved in charity because he found it a really easy way to predate. So his motives were perhaps not altruistic. I feel the same about CM. Even if you look at things like his centre, his helping dogs after Katrina, I suspect one uses his harsh methods and the other was done for fame and glory, not altruistically.

I honestly don't think he likes dogs. You can see if someone does in the behind the scenes vids. I don't think someone chuckling when dogs are aggressing is anything like the way a true dog lover would behave!

I don't usually judge so harshly and it's taken me a long long time to get to this level when I refer to any human being, but CM does deserve it.

He has had his chances to alter and doesn't, because he knows that his way brings in money and fame. Many of us on here have used pretty harsh methods back in the day, but we have changed our ways once we learnt better and realised that yes, actually one can be kind to dogs when training them (and heck, it's fun and gets good results and no bites!).

Wys
x

Of course one can say that - there is nothing illogical, inaccurate or untrue about it. If someone uses cruel and abusive methods, they are then cruel and abusive by dint of their actions.

If I were seen doing this stuff to Loki, I would expect to be reported. Just because he's made a name for himself as a trainer does not make his methods acceptable.

It is perfectly normal for people to take a dim view of a person when they see him behaving cruelly towards the very animals he claims to be concerned about. As you will see from some of the comments, rather than making people want to know more about him, his actions have alienated people. And that is a normal reaction too.

Yes, I think if we see an article in the paper about someone punching and near strangling their dog (am calling a spade a spad here ) we'd be absolutely furious about it.

Yet because CM does it, he can get away with people thinking it might in some circumstances be OK to treat an animal like this, because he has some kind of special understanding which gives him this right.

Wys
x

I think it might be difficult to answer that without further annoying you all with my view but I'll give it a go.


Buddhism largely teaches about kindness, compassion, Mindfulness and a balanced mind. These are not so much Buddhist qualities as Human qualities but Buddhism is a good way of developing these things and it works for me.

Now when I've watched CM (which I haven't for over 3 years as I don't have sky) I have not seen it in the same way as some of you have.
What I've seen is somebody who seems to be calm and assertive and get good results in difficult sittuations.

I'm not even saying that your wrong and I'm right, I'm just saying that this is how I've viewed it.

Now If I am wrong then the very worst thing I've done is get sucked in by somebody who seemed quite impressive.
I won't be the first or the last person to do that.

But to twist it around so my view somehow means I think it's ok to mistreat animals is bonkers and it takes the debate nowhere other than shouting each other down.

Best wishes

Hi Shane, I think that explains a lot. Three years ago, many of us probably didn't think he was so bad either - it's only recently where people have compiled hours of footage into clips of strong evidence against him. I think the turning point for most of us was the Dog Kicker video:



And the recent punching of Holly

Oh God I don't know where to start. What the hell did he punch her for? He made no attempt to use anything positive to help her - he just made the situation worse. He wanted to bully her into submission for a quick so-called 'result' - some trainer! Poor dogs. I'm actually really upset after watching these clips. Vicious bully is all I can think of right now - not very useful, I know.

I don't think anyone could watch them videos and think he handled the situation well,in fact in the case of holly it was a disaster.i might be wrong,but Im sure in his more recent things, the kick has gone.like I've said before, we all know his bad sides, but I do believe there is good there too. Also again I don't agree with it, but he doesn't hit the dogs hard enough to actually hurt them.im not an apologist for him, just trying to give balance to the debate.

Rottie boy - I'm so sorry, I clicked on edit instead of quote, which is why my post is combined with yours. (Stupid LS )

I've edited out my reply and put it here instead:

What's upset me with this clip is that the dog seems to have food issues and he just goes and crowds her, standing over her so trying to force her to react. When she does, he deliberately punches her. There was no attempt to try to gain trust, to help her overcome whatever it is that makes her like this, to help her become confident with her food and people etc. He just set out to bully her. Even if he didn't hurt her, his behaviour, - crowding her space, standing over her in that threatening pose, glaring into her face, punching her etc. - it was always going to end in tears. That did nothing to help her whatsoever, do you see what I mean? My dog is great with food - we can take anything from him because I made sure he became used to it as a puppy - but if CM pulled those stunts on him he'd react badly too, - so would I!

That's what I think anyway.

Thing is, it would take time to really help her but it probably wouldn't make such good tv.

Lucky star. I agree with everything you say on that. It wasn't necessary and very badly done. I can also take my boys food without any problems, as like you I worked with him as a pup.