I have striven not to mention the ec words for very obvious reasons, but since you have raised the issue, I will tell you that us using such a device had absolutely nothing to do with CM using one on Daddy vis a vis the rattlesnake. I have in fact always fully supported CM in this use, bearing in mind the very real danger to Daddy and the need for a quick fix - the end justified the means.

I repeat ... SOME of CM's methods have been a saviour for Ben. I consider it a very likely scenario that he would have actually ended up being put down. He was what CM would describe as a red zoner - but multiply that by at least 2.

As a PS to that last posting Jackbox, with the very greatest respect you have never met Ben. If you met him now, you would think what a thoroughly nice dog he is. Very obedient, very loving but full of character and fun. A very well-balanced dog.

Had you met him two and a half years ago, and had you seen some of the things that we had to cope with, I think you would be more understanding.

You have no right to judge me, no-one does, without knowing the dog. And you don't know him. You can only go on what I tell you about him, and assuming that you don't think me to be a liar, you will just have to accept that some of CM's methods were Ben's saviour.

Although I've never liked Cesar, I used to think he meant well and had the best interests of the dogs at heart. I do try to see the good in people as a rule.

However, the more I have seen of his programmes, the more convinced I am that he is abusive towards dogs, with little regard for their feelings and that he is laughing all the way to bank, at those that are anti and at his fans. I seriously dislike the guy now.

I agree with your views.

I’ve learnt an awful lot from Cesar, I am now able to read my dogs better, therefore respond better, therefore have a much better relationship with them.

By using some of the knowledge gleaned from his shows I was able to prevent a blood bath when I and my dogs came under attack by two dogs.

That's great to hear. I think I too can say that I read my dogs better, thanx to CM - I just don't think we would have achieved the success we have with Ben without CM.

That's not to say I don't think he has lost his way - I think he has - but I learned what I have learned from watching his early shows from a few years ago, before IMO he became desensitised by all the adulation, fame and money maybe.

I am totaly confused with people saying they have learnt to read their dogs cos of CM when we see time and time again that CM cannot read dogs
Holly is just a recent example but a very good case in point - just about everyone could see that she was close to biting - yet he was surpised

I think people are selling themselves short, if they can read their dogs then they have surpassed CM's skills

I don't think I am saying that I have learnt to read my dogs through CM. I think it is more that CM's techniques, his mode d'emploi, has enabled me to get through to them so that THEY have been able to recognise me and OH as their pack leaders. If you like, for want of a better phrase, CM trips the triggers of the more wolfie breeds of dogs, like mine.

I'll try and illustrate - Hal used to look at me as to say "what do you mean, ... sit? Why, why should I, ask me nicely and maybe I might consider it". The "ask me nicely" was me and OH too communicating with Hal in a manner fitting for a true alpha, for a pack leader. CM's "claim the space, standing with an assertive, upright stance. Be calm, yet assertive. Be consistent, setting those rules, boundaries and limitations that YOU, as pack leader, want, however soft they may appear to some people. If you want to allow your dogs to jump on the furniture, then so be it, that's fine, as long as it is under your terms". This worked with my Hal, he looked at us as if to say "o at last, you have learned to speak my language. OK, I'll come when you call me if I must!"

I'm not explaining this at all well, but I know what I mean. CM taught me how to ask my dog to do something in such a way that the stubborn old git could not ignore!

Now, if you are saying that CM does not or can not practice what he preaches, then that is a different thing altogether, and you may have a good point there with some of the dogs we have seen - the failures, the Holly's, the Shadow's, that Jindo whose name I have forgotten. But what about the unforgettable Nou Nou? That dog was an outstanding success for CM. Look at Daddy - what an amazing dog he was. And Popeye, scarred from his dog-fighting days.

Maybe he does get it wrong more often that he should. Maybe he has lost his temper, or through fear, kicked dogs - unforgiveable IMO - but it is not fair to condemn him through his failures when he has achieved many successes.

I just wish he would stop all this celebrity look how clever I am bollocks, and get back to doing what he used to do well, instead of playing to the cameras and showing off, at the expense of the dogs.

There are no pack leaders in the wolf or wild dog packs & as CM bases all his beliefs on domination of the dog by the human on studies of captive artificial wolf pack(which have now been shown to be totally erroneous) he is wrong in his thinking that dogs need to be dominated to be"calm & submissive".

Submissive is not what using his methods result in, it is shut down, stress & fear

Watching him squirm on TV showed the stress he was under when he wasn't in control of the situation.

The man is interested only in money, power & his own ego & should be disregarded by anyone who has a dog

I have totaly never understood how a 'stance' can make a dog believe we are the alpha - our stance is totaly different to dogs, our body laungage is so very different from that of wolves

Never really got the idea that you have to have the right stance and tone of voice for a dog to obay you - more often than not I dont speak at all - or speak in all sorts of tones of voice - and I attempt to train my dogs that they will perform for me if I ask when Im not even in the same room - or Im sprawled out on the sofa

Have to agree with the above - I don't think CM really understands dogs at all.

You might observe that he does understand that violence, aggression and bullying (i.e. mental and physical abuse) can almost always get you your way tho ..that's clearly evident in his approach to training from where I'm standing anyway.