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Krusewalker
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08-11-2010, 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
I shall look forward to that with interest...

already posted, i waited until i had time to watch a whole video

...there is trivia and then there is trivia, when it comes to the welfare of animals I would say questioning the ability of someone who visibly causes discomfort to a dog and actually includes himself among your number should take priority over whether or not a topic should be being discussed .

i never said this

Clearly some people think by continually discussing the subject we are in fact acting as an advertisement for e collar salesmen by giving them the oxygen of publicity.

i disagree. thats just an arguement for censorship that can be applied to anything. i dont do censorship

I wasn't aware I had stifled debate ,

i never said you had

on the contrary I have frequently asked Adam questions but rarely received what I would call a satisfactory response and in some instances no response at all.

exactly what the whole point of my posts have been about...obviously, this means im not thinking of people like you

As to personal insults, I don't consider it a personal insult to questions someones ability when they have put themselves forward as a
authority on a particular subject and are found wanting.

neither do, i never said this

I am deadly serious as well so that makes two of us.
................cool
Meg
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08-11-2010, 10:43 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
I have and I did. Guess what---no e collar needed just trust and respect on both sides.

rune
..me too and it was two weeks before I could get anywhere near the dog in question , I don't think she had even seen a lead.

It's amazing when you build trust without fear, the unsuppressed personality of the dog gradually emerges and they are able to reach their full potential.
Meg
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08-11-2010, 10:54 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
Can I just point out that a few weeks prior to the vid he was due to be pts for aggression.
On whos say so?
I wouldn't have taken him on otherwise I wasn't even looking for another dog and certainly not another jrt (sorry Finn). I only took him on to save him.

He had been aggressive to his owners and other people. In disputes over food he'd bitten his owners numerouse times (multi bite attacks) and had also randomly attacked them.
A lot of owners have no understating of the dogs in their care, if I was a trainer I would never base my opinion on a dog solely on the say so of the owner I would wish to carry out my own independent analysis of a dog's behaviour.

He was only ever walked on lead and muzzled after attacking other dogs on walks.
again this could be down to the handler not the dog .
Feel free to take on a dog with that history people, and train it up as you like. He's now a teaching dog btw.
I have taken on worse, never any question of putting them down though , you can't blame a dog for being mishandled and misunderstood.
SLB
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08-11-2010, 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
On whos say so?
A lot of owners have no understating of the dogs in their care, if I was a trainer I would never base my opinion on a dog solely on the say so of the owner I would wish to carry out my own independent analysis of a dog's behaviour.
again this could be down to the handler not the dog .
I have taken on worse, never any question of putting them down though , you can't blame a dog for being mishandled and misunderstood.
Totally Agree, Benjie was picked up as a stray, the RSPCA told my OH's family he was good with people/dogs ... when they got him home a total different story, he'd attacked a ESS on his first walk, he went for a child on his 3rd week with them and is scared of walking sticks - of which until I came into the picture we knew nothing about (my dad walks with a stick) and he attacked my dad (not nastily). So Totally agree Minihaha
SibeVibe
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08-11-2010, 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
Adam I note you have three videos..
..look at this one also Jack I think..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDl5e..._order&list=UL

look at the dogs body language, the set of the tail, the expression ,the body posture , it all spells fear and uncertainty to me . I have seen it before on dogs who have been subject to e collars they are wary all the time
When a normal happy dog is walking its whole body is 'animated'. I don't think you did this dog any favours rescuing it, what a miserable existence for a little terrier living in fear all the time . Presumably this poor little dog is the one you were eager to demonstrate your 'skills' on (see post 25)to anyone prepared to watch

ETA I'm off to walk my dog before I say something I shouldn't!
Agree. Worried little dog. So sad walking to heel carries such a burden for the lad

Take care Mini.

Seoniad.
Meg
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08-11-2010, 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by SibeVibe View Post
Agree. Worried little dog. So sad walking to heel carries such a burden for the lad

Take care Mini.
Seoniad.
..at the risk of upsetting some people, if I was a little terrier about to be put to sleep and instead ended up in Adams hands living in perpetual fear, given electric shocks for displaying natural traits or because no one had ever taught me to behaviour to fit in with human expectations I would rather be peacefully asleep thank you.
Krusewalker
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08-11-2010, 11:09 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
KW It has taken me a while to type my response and I see you have replied in the meantime ....

Is that it then KW , is that all you see including in the second video where the little terrier is on the lead
i dont understand your post
Meg
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08-11-2010, 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
i dont understand your post
..KW , I don't understand your brief interpretation of the two videos in question but then what do I know, you are the trainer .

Clearly some of us see more than you do ...
Lucky Star
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08-11-2010, 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
..at the risk of upsetting some people, if I was a little terrier about to be put to sleep and instead ended up in Adams hands living in perpetual fear, given electric shocks for displaying natural traits or because no one had ever taught me to behaviour to fit in with human expectations I would rather be peacefully asleep thank you.
Me too. Poor little dog. Slavery springs to mind.
Krusewalker
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08-11-2010, 11:22 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
..KW , I don't understand your brief interpretation of the two videos in question but then what do I know, you are the trainer .

Clearly some of us see more than you do ...
eh?

you asked me to watch and comment (albeit i was doing this of my own accord anyway), and i did.

i made the same observations you did, and everyone else.
but im now 'wrong' as i havent quite said them in the 'right way'

PS - did you not see:
at first its hard to follow stuff as the picture quality is a bit poor and there is a weird clicking noise throughout (not the e collar)
i dont understand you
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