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DeeBuzzby
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16-01-2012, 06:00 PM

Epilepsy- side effects of Epiphen?

Hi Dogsey members! I'm a new member with a 4 year old Dutch Kooikerhondje who has epilepy. I know that in the long term the medication he takes will affect his liver,but I'd like to know what side effects will he have as a result. We'd just like to know what to look out for! Is there anyone out there who's further down the epilepsy line with any info? Many thanks!
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Shalva
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16-01-2012, 06:42 PM
Hi I am a new member as well but I have had a dog with epilepsy for 8 years... he started seizing at age 2 and is now a bit over 10 (turned 10 in November)

a couple things... yes the phenobarbital can be hard on the liver and some will suggest taking milk thistle to ward that off.. but you must be careful with the milk thistle as it can block the proper absorbtion of the pheno which metabolizes in the liver. I know that my vet has stopped recommending milk thistle to dogs who are taking medication that metabolizes in the liver.

Now keep in mind that in Cuinns most recent blood work we did see some minor changes in the liver values but this is after 8 years on phenobarbital and on some high dosages . It is certainly something to keep an eye on but not something to freak out about. i have heard that some dogs have taken sam-e with success ... but after having problems with cuinn and his meds due to milk thistle I no longer give him anything other than his meds.

Cuinn when he started seizing (he clusters) was on just phenobarbital which successfully controlled the seizures for many years... after about 5 years we had to add in the potassium bromide and then about 2 years ago we added in Keppra

I am happy to help in any way that I can I did start a [a social network] group for folks with epi-pets and you are welcome to join us....
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Lucky Star
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16-01-2012, 07:36 PM
Hi - short term side effects are reported to be increased thirst and hunger, increased urination, sedation and ataxia. However, these should improve within around two weeks of starting the drug or increasing dose.
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DeeBuzzby
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16-01-2012, 08:39 PM
Thanks for your imput guys. So far Archie is only on 60mg Epiphen (phenobarb) twice a day. He's been on it since he was 18 months old, and he's just coming up to 4. He tends to fit about every 6 weeks now, which is far more than in the beginning. Funny to hear about the Milk Thistle - I found it a great way to prevent hangovers in my younger days!
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Malka
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16-01-2012, 08:49 PM
Pereg is on 50mg Pb TID [150mg/day] which is a high dose for her weight. She has 1 x 400mg SAMe and 1 x 150mg Milk Thistle cap/day as liver-supporting supplements, and her last liver function test showed normal values.
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Shalva
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16-01-2012, 09:08 PM
Originally Posted by Malka View Post
Pereg is on 50mg Pb TID [150mg/day] which is a high dose for her weight. She has 1 x 400mg SAMe and 1 x 150mg Milk Thistle cap/day as liver-supporting supplements, and her last liver function test showed normal values.
the milk thistle if used should be used as pulse therapy not as an every day thing... we found that at first the milk thistle was fine but after time we had increased breakthrough seizures when I mentioned this to the holistic vet she found the same thing in many dogs and now if needed she only uses it a week or two on and several weeks off and back and forth...

as it was explained to me milk thistle works by blocking absorption of things into the liver... and as such it blocks the phenobarbital from metabolizing as it should.

just be very careful
when I mentioned this to an epilepsy group that I belonged to I started getting lots of emails from others who experienced the same thing that I did
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Lucky Star
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16-01-2012, 10:20 PM
Originally Posted by Shalva View Post
the milk thistle if used should be used as pulse therapy not as an every day thing... we found that at first the milk thistle was fine but after time we had increased breakthrough seizures when I mentioned this to the holistic vet she found the same thing in many dogs and now if needed she only uses it a week or two on and several weeks off and back and forth...

as it was explained to me milk thistle works by blocking absorption of things into the liver... and as such it blocks the phenobarbital from metabolizing as it should.

just be very careful
when I mentioned this to an epilepsy group that I belonged to I started getting lots of emails from others who experienced the same thing that I did
Hi Shalva, do you have any links to studies for this? I'd be interested to read them.
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Lucky Star
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16-01-2012, 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by DeeBuzzby View Post
Thanks for your imput guys. So far Archie is only on 60mg Epiphen (phenobarb) twice a day. He's been on it since he was 18 months old, and he's just coming up to 4. He tends to fit about every 6 weeks now, which is far more than in the beginning. Funny to hear about the Milk Thistle - I found it a great way to prevent hangovers in my younger days!
Hi DeeBuzzby

Does Archie suffer from clusters or single fits? If his fits aren't being controlled, perhaps he needs an adjunct medication?
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Shalva
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16-01-2012, 10:22 PM
I can look and see what I have, I know I saved them for a while but after 8 years I am not sure that I have them at this point but I will look....
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Lucky Star
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16-01-2012, 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by Shalva View Post
I can look and see what I have, I know I saved them for a while but after 8 years I am not sure that I have them at this point but I will look....
Thanks.
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