When speaking to US people they do all use the word "burn" in the same way so this is the first time I've heard it referring to an extended shock.

Why would that word be used?

Very sad that people choose to use extended shocks (or indeed, any shocks) on dogs anyway.

And yes, especially for sport

There isn't even the excuse that is usually given, which is to save a dog's life.

Wys
x

Thanks for explaining, I was just being nosey. I train it very similarly but use a lot of food/toy rewards.

For me, it turned into always providing a predictive reward, as I ended up using it for chase recall I tend to now use Off for removing her nose from things she shouldn't be nosing in too much

Thanks again and best of luck.

Wys
x

Yes my dogs work on driven shoots during the pheasant season, and yes my own dog has gone over a wall into a road to retrieve a pheasnat that shouldn't have been shot, and no i still wouldn't put a collar on her, because that would negate everything i have taught her about being bold and doing her job, which is to flush and retrieve birds

Thanks for posting Lizzie, it's always good to read a post from someone who has experience of being on shoots and working with high drive dogs in the same sort of situation as the original poster. I completely agree with you of course.

Even dogs who look fairly ok, all you have to do is watch them for a while and you can very often see the shock collar trained dogs or those trained harshly.

Wys
x

If these collars don't hurt the dogs and aren't 'cruel' why is it the owners who use them don't want to dog to know it is the owner inflicting it on them? Reading some of this drivel you'd be forgiven for thinking the dogs enjoyed the experience.

Not always correct, surprisingly.
I've studied some US vids re. shock collar training and some trainers do in fact WANT the dog to know the shock comes from them.

They did give a reason - I think it was because they "needed to know they could not get away with doing it wrong" or something similar to that

Pretty sickening to watch and listen to, in fact.

Wys
x

I use 'off' when I want them not to jump up, either at me, on the couch or whatever. Down is used for them to lie down.
Cariad isn't particularly toy orientated, Lona will go after a ball if it is in the water and will swim and fetch it for me, but throw it for her on the field and she looks at me like I have run mad. Both girls are food orientated in the main. Mabs is quite ball orientated, but strangely not that food orientated.
Don't know what will be floating Keshi's boat as yet!!!
She can already sit and give a paw when asked, in fact most times she'll come over and sit in front of you and give you both of them She does it for cuddles and praise at the moment.

she still hasnt answered my 2 questions yet, to which i say it proves her wrong totally. and it isnt some tit bit someone claiming to be a trainer either, many of the worlds leading experts say the same, but hang on someone we dont know and uses bad training methods must be right yeah.

Malka, no offense, but posts like this are the reason this discussion continues to go in circles. As I said previously, I get it, you think the collar is the tool of the devil and those who use it are the spawn of Satan.

If you actually and comprehend my posts, especially the recent #164, you will find that I agree with you in situations where the collar is used improperly. Believe me when I say that I could recount the results of ignorant collar use that resulted in behaviors far worse than anything you folks have described. In all cases, these were incidents that I personally observed, and had personal knowledge of the "method" that caused the results, and was thus able to form a reasoned opinion, rather than justreacting emotionally. These are not incidents I merely heard recounted by (sometimes biased) people who tend to engage in hyperbole (ever played the game of "gossip"?), they are not incidents I make up or pull out of thin air.

Again, and for the last time, I am not out to change anyone's mind or promote collar use. I am doing my best to promote the exchange of information, including my personal opinions, formed from my personal experiences over the past 37 years, and to learn about your methods. Folks who repeatedly post nothing but "anti" rants which are based in purely emotional reactions to things they have no personal knowledge of are causing the very thing they then complain about, i.e., a discussion circles endlessly. Please take a page from the book of Brierley and others like her, who ask intelligent questions and present their reasoned opinions based on their experiences, because posts like yours do nothing to promote civil give and take.

To my utter shame, e-collars are not banned in my Country, but I, and many others who feel as I do, are doing our utmost to get them banned.

There is no point in trying to have an "intelligent" discussion with you, as your mind is 100% set on the fact that e-collars = good, and trainers who use e-collars = good, and that e-collars are not punishment etc ad infinitum.

I, and those like me, consider them to be nothing but sheer and utter cruelty, and nothing you have said or will ever say will change my mind about that.