I need some body language help please

Before I go into the full story I'd like some opinions on the following situation:

Walking in a large open field, dog 1 approaches dog 2, both large breeds. Dog 1 has head held high trying to make eye contact, tail straight upright and wagging ever so slightly from side to side. Dog 2 has head and tail low, attempting to sniff at dog 1's rear end, but dog 1 keeps turning round quickly. After about 30 seconds a ruck breaks out with dog 2 attempting to get hold of the back of dog 1's neck lots of barking and snarling from both dogs, no blood drawn.

Which dog is the aggressor? Dog 1 is entire, dog 2 castrated, both dogs are around the same age.

I'll go into more detail after some replies - apologies for being so mysterious!

I am not an expert but dog 1 sounds like it was in a fairly agressive stance and trying to out stair dog 2
dog 2 sounds like it was trying to do a doggy hello but might be a bit reactive and takking offence at dog 1's rudeness

tbh when Mia is doing a dog 1 I distract her or get her the h£ll out of there

Dog one is the aggressor in my view? Dog 2 was definitely being submissive via it's body language, although probably being a bit cheeky attempting to have a sniff, he should have read the signs a tad better imo! Dog 1 was probably in a grumpy mood and might not have gone for dog 2 anyway, but the sniffing continued, even though he had turned round quickly and said "oi, I don't want you doing that"! He was only telling him off anyway, if he'd wanted to go for the kill he would have gone for the back legs, they always do!

Thanks, I needed to know that I'd read the situation correctly. The two dogs have a "history". My dog is dog 2, a Ridgeback, the other dog is an English Setter. My dog is pushy and loves playing with dogs of his own size, or any dog for that matter, one of his current favourites is a 5 month old cocker spaniel.

The English Setter in question has tried humping my dog on several [hundred] occasions and also humps any other dog it comes across - its female owner says "its because its Spring" - regardless of the time of year, but usually it's walked by a man. The man has no control over this dog, it roams off by itself which is usually when it finds us. He can be anything up to 2 fields away and stands blowing his whistle to no effect. His dog always stands with held high trying to make eye contact, tail straight upright.

In my opinion, his dog is the aggressor but I know mine won't back down from a challenge, I've leashed my dog a couple of times and still had his dog blocking our path, my instinct on previous occasions has been to let them get on with it, which always ends up with my dog flipping his onto its back and then backing off while his dog runs away - I think my dog is exhibiting dominant behaviour, not aggression, hence the fact that today he was trying to get hold of the other dogs scruff - he does it when he's playing with his best pal, a golden retriever, gets hold of the fur on the GR's scruff and then uses his shoulder to roll him over onto his back.

On several occasions I've told the man if he sees me to put his dog on the lead and I'll do the same, but if his dog attempts to hump mine while mine's on lead I end up in the middle of a scrap between 2 eight stone dogs which isn't a very pleasant place to be!

Today I saw him, he saw me and he did nothing, so I left my dog off lead but close to me. His dog stopped in its tracks, assumed the "stance" and mine went in to sniff. The scrap broke out and he attempted to hit my dog with his umbrella - I shouted at him "they're as bad as each other, I've asked you to put yours on a lead" he said "your dog is capable of more damage so should be on a lead first".

I was livid!

My dog is no angel but he's never started a fight, only reacted to being eyeballed and he's never ever drawn blood.

I guess I'm just frustrated that the Ridgeback is seen as aggressive whilst the nice furry English Setter is deemed not?

I can sympathise with you on this totally and I can see how frustrating it is that this man doesn't seem to care.

As you can control your dog on lead then I would continue to put your dog on lead - if you change direction does the setter follow??? Or literally does it just block your path.

If you put your boy on lead is the man in earshot? Then you can say - I have mine on lead PLEASE get yours on now? I'm guessing that he isn't able to get his dog back though? Sadly English Setters are notorious for selective deafness and also roaming (my boy is going through a phase again and I am having to remind him what a recall is! - but he certainly doesn't act like this around other dogs!) and this is not an excuse for this.

As you do have control you can hopefully help stop these situations.

It does sound like the English is being dominant and perhaps your boy isn't necessarily reading the 'back off' signals (although agree he is just doing what dogs do when they meet - sniff bottoms!)

Hope you can sort his out - try and be relaxed if you do see him as your boy might pick up and react to your tension too.

Good luck in resolving.

Not a nice situation to be in that's for sure. My friend owns a ridgeback, her first one, and although she CAN stick up for herself, she will always back off, unless challenged, and then she will definitely have no fear of going in!!! She told me this is what these dogs do, they will always, always back off UNLESS they are challenged, which of course, your dog was this morning, but then again, like I said, two dominant types, yours pushing his luck a tad going in for a sniff, when the other dog thinks he's a dominant type and in his mind, that's for him to do if he wants, not the other dog?! I'm no behaviourist though Lol! I only go by instinct and what I see!

My current SUBMISSIVE dog, once had another dog pinned to the ground (a dog which he really, really liked and played with!), but HE tried to mount my dog and that was definitely NOT allowed! Mind you, having said that, it is ok for MY dog to try and do the same to him, but I know it's coming when they play so I grab hold of him! Lol! Quite honestly, I think there are more than the two types of dogs, i.e. the dominant or the submissive, there's actually another one in the middle imo(or maybe even 2 more!), i.e. the dog who we think is submissive, but sometimes, when you see how they can stand up for themselves, especially in a situation like yours, then it makes us wonder! I have the very same thing with any entire dog, it's ok if the other dog is very friendly, but if he starts anything, my dog will definitely have a go, and I tell you what, he can pin a dog down in seconds flat!!! I've never seen the likes of this in any other gsd that I have ever owned either!!! Ahhhh, if only they could talk hey!!!

I agree dog one, a dog making eye contact and walking in that characteristic stiff leg way with the tail raised is showing aggression. The problem may be that your castrated dog smells like a female but is not behaving as the dog one would expect, as in our society misunderstanding lead to trouble.

if the dogs are just sorting out who`s higher status, and not hurting each other I`d let them get on with it too. If the man can`t control his Setter then it`s his problem.
If my dogs are getting into a confrontation I prefer to call them to sit beside me then smirk at the other owner running round trying to get their dog. That always brightens up my day.

edited to add - I wouldn`t put my dog on a lead because he would then be at a disadvantage if the other dog decided to pop and I`d be in the middle. Sitting beside me is preferable and demonstrates my dog is under control.

Had I just read the first post I would have said dog 2 was the aggressor (he pushed the situation into an aggressive interaction) and dog one was just dominant.....

Having read your second post, there is obviously many more circumstances surrounding this incident - your dog is obviously worried about being pushed about and/or mounted by the other which has caused him to behave in this way.

My entire dog will often adopt this stance and several dogs have gone in at him - he will not step down, but stands firm until they walk away from him....he will not mount other dogs but his body language is such that he won't take any nonsense.

Helena - yes, he does back off unless challenged. We've always said he never starts scraps but he's happy to chip in

Claire - I have left them to get on with it a few times and he'll generally walk around this setter, but this morning obviously decided he wasn't in the mood. Generally, I tell Odi "leave him" and he does, just gives him a grumble on the way past or on the very odd occasion Odi has done a play bow but the setter remained upright and tail rigid.

Rachel - the only time I've seen him leash his setter was one time when we met on the railway cycle path (I assume he was on the lead because there is a busy road at either end of the path) we had to pass within about 6 feet of each other, I told Odi "leave him" and he did no rumbling, no lurching, nothing, only to get his back ankle bitten by the man's springer spaniel which was off leash

Hey ho - I think I'm going to have to climb down from my moral high ground, call Odi back to me and give this fella a wide berth with my boy on the lead

Thanks for the input everyone