I can't speak for everyone, but the term "anti" is being bandied about a lot on here and personally, I do find it rude. Sorry to bring this up on your post Cordie, that comment is not directed at you but is meant to be a general comment

If an owner tried his extreme methods in the UK they would be doing something illegal. Dog trainers have been prosecuted for less than what he does on tv.

Also:

http://www.[a social network].com/note.php?not...9559&ref=share letter from American Veterinary Society to Merial

"The executive board of the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior is deeply troubled to learn that Merial, a leader in the veterinary healthcare industry, is using Cesar Millan in a promotional campaign for Heartgard and Frontline"

http://www.americanhumane.org/about-...whisperer.html DW approach more harmful than helpful

"The training tactics featured on Cesar Millan's “Dog Whisperer” program are inhumane, outdated and improper, according to a letter sent yesterday to the National Geographic Channel by American Humane, the oldest national organization protecting children and animals"

"Several instances of cruel and dangerous treatment -- promoted by Millan as acceptable training methods -- were documented by American Humane, including one in which a dog was partially asphyxiated in an episode. In this instance, the fractious dog was pinned to the ground by its neck after first being “hung” by a collar incrementally tightened by Millan. Millan’s goal -- of subduing a fractious animal -- was accomplished by partially cutting off the blood supply to its brain".



http://www.4pawsu.com/dominancestatement.pdf
http://www.urbandawgs.com/divided_profession.html
http://www.stevedalepetworld.com/ind...=204&Itemid=71
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...MGPHL9D1N1.DTL
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/31/op...derr.html?_r=2
http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ1...21.FINAL.rev_1
http://4pawsu.com/pmdominance.htm


Most people who dislike his methods are also open minded but they are very often dog trainers (not pet owners) who understand and can see exactly what goes on, are not taken in by his manner, (or his looks for that matter! ) and who know a lot about the science of training and learning theory. We also see a choking dog as a choking dog, we do not say the dog is doing it to itself, nor do we make excuses for abusive behaviour of the person doing it.

I think, too, that the dogs cannot speak for themselves, they do need people to be brave enough to stand up and be counted as being against such extreme methods as choking, for example....and alpha rolling which can be dangerous for owners as well as frightening for a dog.

My major dislike is that he sets dogs up to fail, fight and give up (break the spirit).

I do not believe most of them are last resort cases . Yes some may be, but I know from talking to people in the UK who have been involved in dog programmes that very often what you see is nothing like the reality. I also know from trainer and behaviour lists in the US that it is not unusual for the owners to ask for help after the CM programmes, from another trainer, because CM method did not work.

I think the thread's OK at the moment (as CM threads do get very heated) ....

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There are people on these forums who have rehabilitated a `red zone` dog. Without these bullying methods. I suggest you do a bit more research, CM peeps!
The dogs are not in a win-win situation. Anyone can terrorise a small animal- it`s not hard. But at the end that`s what you have - a shut-down dog desperate to appease. Kinder and more intelligent methods allow the dog to re-learn his way of coping with life.
There are trainers in the UK who help people retrain extremely aggressive dogs - I`m going to see one tomorrow (though not about aggression BTW ) Only she doesn`t appear on TV so she`s not a `celebrity`.

TV programmes are for entertainment, not education. And because the guy has built a career on the back of it doesn`t make him any less of an entertainer. I mean - would you let Laurence Llewellyn-Bowen paint your house?

I'd like ANYONE to paint my house!

OTOH I am more fussy about my dogs!

rune

Ah but did you see the chess-board floor and bordello-red walls that made the owner of the house burst into tears? (OT, sorry)

That's quite a statement/claim. Do you have evidence to back this up? I'd say that's your opinion, rather than fact.

If it were as you say, it would not make sense even from a business point of view.After all like anyone, trainers want owners to come back!

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That comment from him is a bit silly... to put it mildly.

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I volunteered at a local rescue in my spare time for 15 months. During all that time there were several aggressive dogs which came in. Of all of these, one had been trained by someone with the same misunderstanding of positive training as you - with the same results you had with your boy - and as the dog was a great dane, the situation was quite serious (but he was successfully turned round).

But ALL of the other aggressive dogs were hand shy, indicating that they had been hit/physically abused.

Yes, many of the non-aggressive dogs had no manners/discipline - perhaps their owners had attended training lessons once a week - but I don't believe that they practiced what had been taught in between and I'm damn sure that you can't blame whatever the weekly training session taught in 1 or 2 hours each week.

I think you are missing a couple of key points regarding training and people's comments on CM.

(1) both positive and negative training can go wrong if implemented incorrectly (or no training at all given outwith the weekly training class). However, I know of no cases where positive training correctly applied have resulted in an aggressive dog whereas I know of many where negative training has.
(2) When people are saying that CM methods are cruel and likely to be counter productive, they are talking about the things specific to him. The methods that you describe as using, which are basically just being confident around your dog and enforcing discipline without any physical punishment is not specific to CM. Yes you may have got the idea from him, but you would have got it from other trainers just the same.

Why, thank you so much

Yes, I do advise that - referring in the main to his more exreme methods. For good reason. Dogs have had to be put to sleep as a direct result of owners watching CM. Owners have come to me bitten due to watching his techniques and attempting to use them.
I have, whilst I was writing it
I can't recall that actually, although I'm not saying I didn't.
That would of course have been in context.... I usually avoid making too personal comments about how anyone on here looks after their dog. Can you show me please? as otherwise I am just guessing.

This is too vague again: can you be exact in what you refer to? I guess you are referring to the exercise/discipline/affection but as you've not clarified I have no idea...

I'm an "average trainer" and I think, from remembering reading Cesar's Way that I do disagree with some of it but I'd have to read the book again to double check. For me the relationship is first and foremost because owners can't do much without it.

I guess you do not mean "me" as such, but it does read that way ... I can assure you, I don't usually rant, as I can back up anything i say and prefer to be polite, when posting. More people will respect you and listen to you.
What the heck does that mean? I can only presume you are talking about feeling my mammary area , but I can't believe that is what you mean I guess it is a local experession but I've never heard of it ... can you explain please?

Can you clarify concisely what you do do? I think you have mentioned claiming space before, but you've also mentioned other methods which in your posts came out as confusing to several posters here (at least, the way you posted about them was confusing) because you seemed to say they were confrontational.It would be good if that could be cleared up totally as then people can sing from the same hymn sheet.

There are many different types of local training club - some advice is good, some is appalling. Local clubs vary hugely so again, you'd have to clarify what you mean exactly.

You are saying that I say some of these are wrong? Again, you've used the word "you" so I am assuming you are really directing this at me, without clarifiying any of what i say to my clients ...
Scarter, if you don't politely enquire about things and clarify them, rather than assume, you are going to annoy people, and not be taken seriously.
...


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Good post there
I've bolded bits I particularly agree with.


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Behaviourists often are clicker trainers - the clicker is used in behavioural work, including aggression.


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